Evidence of meeting #31 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was threat.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Toni Moffa  Deputy Chief, IT Security, Communications Security Establishment Canada
Robert Gordon  Special Advisor, Cyber Security, Canadian Cyber Incident Response Centre, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Commissioner James Malizia  Assistant Commissioner Protective Policing, Protective Policing Branch, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Tony Pickett  Officer In Charge, Technological Crime Branch, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

And thank you for attending today.

This is kind of walking on eggshells, this process today. We realize you come in here with some trepidation, because there's stuff you can't share. We appreciate that. But you also understand our need to try to find some consensus on where we're going as well, so we do keep pushing. So I appreciate your caution.

Within that context, in the general generic terms, how do you handle the threats that MPs come forward with? For instance, if any one of us went to you and thought we had a serious issue, could you take us through the steps that would get us through this, as it were?

12:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

Certainly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As you know, ministers of the crown are entitled to receive RCMP protection in Canada and abroad, as needed, by virtue of section 17 of the RCMP regulations. Any threat to a member of Parliament, of course, is investigated by the police of jurisdiction. That may or may not be the RCMP, depending upon the area.

Again, there is a threat risk assessment as this information is received. We have a dedicated team within our national security apparatus that conducts threat risk assessments. It is immediately looked at with respect to protective measures on our protective policing side, where we determine at that point if we should provide preventative security measures. our protective package, while we continue to investigate.

We continue to assess and monitor the situation as the threat is being investigated. Again, security measures will be adjusted according to the process, and ultimately, of course, the investigation will continue with a view and determination to see if there's enough evidence available to charge under the Criminal Code.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS

Okay. Thank you.

Another major problem I'm sure you must face is that in a democratic country, obviously privacy is a major issue. People are very sensitive about interfering with their businesses, using the Internet, and so on. Is this a major frustration, challenge, or problem for you in sometimes trying to delve into issues that you know are serious issues? Again, I understand this is at a surface level, but the fact that the demand for privacy is there at the same time you're trying to find answers, is that a real challenge?

12:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

I can say that there are instances where we have the ability to be able to successfully track and identify, and depending upon the complexity there will be times where we will not. Of course, we certainly invite any modern tools and resources to help us respond to the evolving nature of national and transnational crimes.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS

I realize that's an ongoing change.

On the international front, and again I realize the protection of privacy is absolutely critical for security and a whole lot of other reasons, but in the many contexts you have, with the information flow and so on, do you find a lot of best practices improving because of those contacts? In other words, I'm sure everybody's trying to keep ahead of the curve, so is that an opportunity to really learn new methods, new procedures, or what's going on? I'm trying to be very generic here, obviously. I'm just wondering in a general sense, in the sense of protection for our people, are you learning a lot from other partners around the world?

12:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

Certainly, we have trusted partnerships around the world that allow us to collaborate together and share on different areas and innovation with respect to best practices.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS

Okay.

Do you have anything to add, Mr. Gordon?

12:20 p.m.

Special Advisor, Cyber Security, Canadian Cyber Incident Response Centre, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Robert Gordon

We have very good sharing agreements with a number of countries. It has proven to be very useful and is very robust, both in terms of best practices at a technical level, but also at a policy level. So as countries are developing cyber-strategies, there are a number of ideas that are coming forward, and that we're sharing aggressively. So it's a very useful process for us.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS

Okay. Thank you.

That's as deep as I would go anyway, sir.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you.

Madam Latendresse, four minutes please.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Thank you very much.

Thank you for being here and for your remarks. What you are telling us is very interesting and it is good to know more about this subject.

Coming back to the case currently before us, we are talking about a video that was posted on YouTube. Can you tell us if there is any way to trace the IP address, for instance, of the person who posted this video online on YouTube?

12:25 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

My position does not allow me to give any details about the case you are referring to.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

I mean generally speaking. When someone posts a video on YouTube, is there any way to trace their IP address?

12:25 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

As I mentioned at the beginning, there are situations in which we are able to identify individuals on a case-by-case basis. Every case is different and some are complicated. Sometimes we are not able to do so.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

You talked a lot about the threats that can be made against ministers or MPs. I would like to pursue what Mr. Albrecht was saying earlier.

If a minister came to you tomorrow morning with an anonymous handwritten letter containing basically the same type of message—that is, a demand to scrap a bill, otherwise, personal information would be revealed about the minister—would an investigation be conducted?

12:25 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

Regardless of the form of the threat received—as an example, of course—we analyze it and, if necessary, we conduct a criminal investigation.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Whether it is in the form of a letter or anonymous video, an investigation can occur. No major distinction is made in that regard, correct?

12:25 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

Are you asking if we would investigate in both cases? Yes, we investigate all cases.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

So the fact that it was a video in this case has no bearing on the importance attributed to the threat.

12:25 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

I cannot comment on the present case, but I can say that we would investigate in the cases I described earlier.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

I imagine you have seen the video. Have you seen the video we are talking about and we are supposed to analyze to determine if a breach of privilege occurred?

12:25 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

Yes.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

In your opinion, does this video contain any elements that could justify charges? We know that our parliamentary rules were breached, because the video violates a minister or member's right to introduce a bill. But is there anything in the video that could be considered criminal?

12:25 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

My position does not allow me to comment on any criminal investigation that is under way.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Is there anything this committee can do in relation to this situation?