Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 3rd, 2012

[A/Commr James Malizia]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Although I'm not in a position to speak about any ongoing investigations, our current understanding of some of these cyber-groups is that they can best be described as a movement using a common banner with undefined membership. They offer a forum for like-minded individuals or groups to express similar ideologies. Few of these individuals or groups represent themselves as criminal organizations, however, their tactics sometimes violate criminal laws in countries where they purport to operate.

Historically, some threats to a minister or an MP that we have investigated have resulted in criminal charges. All I can say is that the RCMP would pursue a criminal investigation upon receipt of that information.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Okay.

In terms of the sharing of information across jurisdictional lines, you mentioned sharing information internationally as well. What tools are at your disposal to pursue that in terms of identifying the IP address, or if we need to find the origin of something like this posting on YouTube?

[A/Commr James Malizia]

We work with law enforcement partners from around the world. With respect to cybercrime, we use the Interpol network, the RCMP liaison officer network, the G-8 24-7 network, which has approximately 60 member states, as well as sharing information on a police-to-police basis. We have information-sharing agreements with those countries. As stated earlier, international cooperation and the exchange of best practices is what enables us to work together and have positive results.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

This is my final question. We're struggling as a committee to try to identify exactly how we deal with this. This is the first time we've dealt with something like this. We've dealt with anonymous letters in the past, and I think we indicated that earlier. But an anonymous letter is slightly different from a posting a YouTube video that can be viewed by thousands or millions of people.

What advice would you have for our committee in terms of trying to mitigate the kinds of threats that may be posted, especially those targeting public officials whose job it is to increase the safety of all of our citizens?

[A/Commr James Malizia]

I would defer to my colleague here from Public Safety. As you know, the RCMP is not mandated to do cyber-security.

[Robert Gordon]

I think, as was said by one of the previous speakers, the actual posting of the YouTube video wasn't a cyber-event in the traditional sense, so Public Safety Canada doesn't provide advice on it. We have provided advice on protecting the various networks, but the actual posting of a video is a fairly easy thing to do. Unfortunately we're not in a position to provide much advice on that.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Again I'm showing my lack of technical expertise as it relates to the Internet, certainly.

So there's no way, there's no technical way, of finding the IP address of the person who uploaded that threatening video, which would actually threaten the job of a member of Parliament or a minister of the crown?

[A/Commr James Malizia]

What I can say, Mr. Chair, is that each investigation is unique. In some instances we may be in a position to identify the individuals involved in criminal activity, and depending upon the complexity, we may not.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Mr. Comartin, you have seven minutes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Assistant Commissioner, just so we're clear, and maybe more for people who are listening than for us, you're not capable, if I understand, of telling us whether or not the RCMP is conducting an investigation into this matter?

[A/Commr James Malizia]

My understanding is that it has been made public that there is an ongoing investigation.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

That was going to be my next question.

When the minister was before us, he indicated that he had requested that the RCMP conduct an investigation. Can you confirm that?

[A/Commr James Malizia]

Yes, we have received information.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Can you confirm that the investigation's ongoing?

[A/Commr James Malizia]

I can say that there's an ongoing investigation.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

With regard to the—and again I recognize the difficulty you have in terms of any details—attempt to identify who posted that YouTube video on the Internet, are there agencies other than the RCMP involved in trying to trace that?

[A/Commr James Malizia]

I'm not in a position to discuss any details or specifics with respect to any ongoing investigation.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

All right.

Assuming there isn't an ongoing investigation, in terms of the ability to track a site like that, would that expertise lie within the RCMP offices or with CSE or some other agency, Mr. Gordon?

Where is the greatest expertise in our system to track?

[Robert Gordon]

I'm not sure I completely understand the question.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Let me repeat it.

Who is best able to identify who put that YouTube video up on the Internet?

[Robert Gordon]

I don't know the answer to that question, but perhaps Mr. Pickett would.

[Superintendent Tony Pickett, Officer In Charge, Technological Crime Branch, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

I could probably speak to that question. There are groups of specialists in different government departments that collaborate quite often on these types of cases.

The complexity of the cases usually indicates that there's not one sole pocket, so we often share resources within the government departments and/or sometimes with other international agencies, law enforcement agencies, or intelligence agencies.

So I guess the expertise doesn't lie necessarily in one particular spot. We'd have to look at it on a case-by-case basis and reach out to other government departments and/or other federal agencies to help us with these kinds of cases.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Would that extend to reaching out to other countries?

[Supt Tony Pickett]

Absolutely.