Evidence of meeting #29 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was election.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Pierre Lortie  Senior Business Advisor, Dentons Canada, As an Individual
Duff Conacher  Co-Founder and Board Member, Democracy Watch
Miriam Fahmy  Director, Research and Publications, Institut du Nouveau Monde
Steven Shrybman  Board Member, Council of Canadians
Simon Rowland  Chief Executive Officer, Direct Leap Technologies Inc.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Last, do you believe that voter ID cards should be allowed as one piece of identification?

12:45 p.m.

Board Member, Council of Canadians

Steven Shrybman

That I can't answer. I'm afraid I'm not an expert in that area.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you, Mr. Lamoureux, you did finish four seconds early. Very good.

We'll go to a four-minute round. We have just enough time.

Mr. Richards, for four minutes, please.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB

Ms. Fahmy, I want to pick up where we left off. I ran out of time on that last part that I wanted to discuss with you.

I appreciate that you indicated specifically that university students weren't necessarily your expertise, but obviously, in encouraging people to be a part of participating in democracy and elections, I know you did have a focus on young people, so you obviously have picked up some knowledge along the way. I would like to focus on that a little bit.

Where I was going with it, basically, was when one's away at university—the reason I asked you about the numbers who live in residences—there are a couple of different options available. It all centres around where they determine their residence to be. That's where they're supposed to vote: where they determine their residence to be. Obviously, in the case where someone is away at university, if they do intend to return home to their parents' house in the summer, they may consider that as their residence, so the riding they are choosing to vote in would actually be different from where they are currently. Then there are other reasons that people would be in that situation on election day, for work or other reasons, and that could be the case.

There are provisions, of course, for people to be able to vote in their home riding, where they consider their residence to be and where they intend to return to. One of them is a special mail-in ballot that someone can ask for. I know people who have done that. It's a fairly simple process, something they can do. I also believe—and I do stand to be corrected, but I'm 99% sure I'm correct on this—that someone can go to a returning office elsewhere in the country and ask to vote by special ballot in their home riding by proving they are a resident of that riding. So there are options available.

We've had other witnesses who have appeared before us to talk specifically about the student situation, and my understanding is that it is generally not about proving their identity. That's usually not an issue. What we have had indicated to us is that it is about proving their address. Now, obviously, the reason that has been given to us is that they might have all their correspondence going to their parents' home, which would indicate to me that it would likely be what they would consider their residence to be, and likely they should be voting by one of those special ballot procedures, if that's the case.

However, if they do believe their residence is in fact where they are at school, there are options. That is one of the reasons that I asked you specifically about the idea of how many live in residence, because that's one option. They can have an attestation done as to their residence by the school. But there are also other forms of ID. If someone is considering that to be their permanent residence, obviously, this could be done. They could provide a bank or credit card statement, a utility bill, correspondence issued by the school—there is actually that information specific to a student that's given to them by the school—statements of government benefits, notices related to income tax, insurance policies, or even a residential lease or mortgage statement. Even a student who doesn't live in residence could simply provide their lease. I know there are situations where students have more than one living in a household, but they could certainly have their name added to the lease.

I guess my question is, would it be helpful for Elections Canada to be able to better communicate to people that there are these options in terms of special balloting or other forms of ID or letters they could provide? Would that be helpful if Elections Canada was to provide that information to you so they would be better able to know their options in terms of voting?

12:50 p.m.

Director, Research and Publications, Institut du Nouveau Monde

Miriam Fahmy

Thank you for the question.

I'm going to answer it the exact way I did last time you asked the question, but maybe by answering it in English it might be clearer. There are two reasons why youth don't go out to vote. One is logistical, and you've laid out the reasons and some of the solutions very well. The other is motivation and interest in political matters. This is what I've come here to testify about. As I've said, we believe that Elections Canada's mandate as a public education provider, especially to youth, should not be removed as it has been in the current bill.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

12:50 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Chair, just so you know, I'd love a chance to ask one very small question before the top of the hour.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Well, with the four-minute round from the other two, we're going to be at about one minute to the top of the hour at that point.

Mr. Scott, you're first on this four-minute segment.

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON

Mr. Rowland, I just want to make sure that what you were talking about at the end when we went into overtime, that you'll be able to provide that documentation to the committee within how long?

12:50 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Direct Leap Technologies Inc.

Simon Rowland

Within a week.

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON

Okay, thank you.

I also just want to say thank you for the services you provide, including to the NDP, and for the fact that on behalf of your own integrity and that of the profession, you want these rules tightened so that fraud will actually be found.

I also want to suggest that when you were asked questions about your background, you could well have asked the questioner whether or not he's ever been fined for breaking robocall rules by the CRTC, something he did not reveal to you during his question.

I'll now pass it on to my colleague.

April 8th, 2014 / 12:50 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is specifically for Ms. Fahmy.

Over time, Elections Canada has adopted various measures and you have proposed ideas that I find very interesting to promote first-time voting.

I really liked your presentation because it is true that studies show that someone who is voting for the first time, as soon as he or she is over 18, will have many opportunities to come back and vote at all the subsequent elections.

I would like your opinion on two measures that you mentioned during your presentation. Under current legislation, Elections Canada cannot come in contact with someone who is not already a Canadian voter. That means that Elections Canada cannot communicate with someone who is under 18. Would allowing Elections Canada to do so be a good idea? In the case of fixed election dates, as is currently the case, Elections Canada knows precisely who will be 18 on election day and could ensure that those people are registered on the voter list and able to vote.

The other measure would be to encourage as much as possible the hiring of young people between 16 and 18 to work on election day. That way, by being on site and working for Elections Canada, they would have direct access to the system and that might make them more interested.

Could you share your opinion on these two specific measures?

12:50 p.m.

Director, Research and Publications, Institut du Nouveau Monde

Miriam Fahmy

I agree with you. As I said in my speech, all the measures are good for bringing out the youth vote. As you know, when voter turnout is low, the entire process becomes invalid. Voter turnout will continue to decrease, based on current trends. That's why it's very important to talk to young people when they reach the age of majority and are eligible to vote. I agree with you. As soon as we know their date of birth and know that they will be able to vote in an election, I think it would be logical for Elections Canada to contact them.

Furthermore, hiring young people to work elections is an excellent idea. I did that when I was 16 or 17. It's an excellent introduction to the electoral process.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Do you think that a number of the measures in the bill will suppress the youth vote or deter them from voting and the measures will make it harder for them to vote?

Our colleagues won't stop mentioning the list, but the reality is that many young people could show up to the polling station with 20 pieces of ID and still not be able to vote because they have no proof of address.

What do you think about that?

12:55 p.m.

Director, Research and Publications, Institut du Nouveau Monde

Miriam Fahmy

Obviously, if a young person—

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

I'm going to have to stop you. Again, we got the question after the four minutes.

I'll go to Mr. Lukiwski, for four minutes, please.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Thank you all for being here.

I want to concentrate my observations and questions again on students voting, young people voting. We have heard from many of our witnesses the fact that some students just don't have the required identification and that's a justification in the minds of many of our witnesses to continue vouching and use of voter information cards as proper ID when confirming addresses.

I would point out to all of you, and in particular to members of this committee, that I've been a member of PROC for 10 years now, and I recall back in 2006 we had a very lengthy discussion about the use of vouching and voter information cards, and almost all—not all, but almost all—members of the committee, and particularly the Liberals, at that time were adamant in their belief that voter information cards should not be used. The national director of the Liberal Party, Mr. MacKinnon, came here and said that there should be proper ID, that vouching should not be allowed, that voter information cards should not be allowed. So it's interesting to see particularly how the Liberals have changed their tune when it's politically convenient.

My point is simply this. As you know and as you've testified, there are 39 current pieces of identification that could be used to verify who you are and where you live. That list of 39 has been developed by Elections Canada, not by the government. We're not the ones saying that these are the 39 pieces that we've come up with so you should be able to satisfy the requirements on identification.

Since it is something that Elections Canada has developed, has your organization considered sending a letter to Elections Canada suggesting additional forms of identification that might be able to capture those people who, perhaps on the student side, are falling through the cracks right now? As in 2006, our contention is that the sanctity of vote is extremely important, just as important as it is the right of every Canadian to exercise his or her franchise.

I'm looking to see if we can find a way to get both of those competing elements, it seems at times, together. Would you undertake to do some research and perhaps make recommendations to Elections Canada to expand the list of 39 eligible pieces of identification?

12:55 p.m.

Director, Research and Publications, Institut du Nouveau Monde

Miriam Fahmy

Is the question for me? The member didn't indicate if the question was for me.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Certainly. That's fine.

12:55 p.m.

Director, Research and Publications, Institut du Nouveau Monde

Miriam Fahmy

You want to know if the Institut du Nouveau Monde would like to contact Elections Canada to recommend that it increase the number of pieces of ID? Is that correct?

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Yes.

12:55 p.m.

Director, Research and Publications, Institut du Nouveau Monde

Miriam Fahmy

As I said earlier, Institut du Nouveau Monde makes recommendations about civic and public education and tries to get young people and the general public interested in voting. Institut du Nouveau Monde does not deal with technical issues associated with identification. I did not talk about that in my speech, so I cannot answer your question.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Yes, and I appreciate that.

My only point is, I think in your role of trying to encourage people to vote, you should, I would suggest, also get involved with trying to overcome obstacles to voting. That's why I asked you whether or not your organization would extend itself a little bit and perhaps do some research and maybe recommend some additional ways in which young people can vote and overcome those obstacles, if there are any, on lack of identification.

12:55 p.m.

Director, Research and Publications, Institut du Nouveau Monde

Miriam Fahmy

Thank you for the recommendation.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

I have a request from Ms. May for unanimous consent for her to have one minute. Do I have unanimous consent?