Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 9th, 2014

[Carolann Barr]

I would agree.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We'll go to Mr. Christopherson, and I think you're splitting your time, but you'll tell me when.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In fact, I'll be asking the initial question and then passing it off to my colleagues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

That's great.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I join with my colleagues in thanking all of you for being here tonight. It means a lot. This is an important piece of Canadian business, and it really matters that you're here. So thank you very much.

If I might, I'll swing over to Mr. Beyene. Sir, we appreciate very much your presentation. I have to say at the outset that I'm very fortunate that I've been to your beautiful country twice. The last time I was there, I was in Addis Ababa, and I was there for the 50th anniversary of the African Union and the grand opening of its new headquarters. It's a beautiful country. In your area of the GTA and surrounding areas in Hamilton, we have a very small Ethiopian community, but very vibrant, and very interested in playing the full citizen role.

My question to you is this, sir. Under the proposed legislation, the Chief Electoral Officer would no longer be responsible for the broader education programs and the broader education of Canadians, not on matters of where you vote and how you vote and the ID, but on what our electoral system is and how it works. They work with communities, different groups in society, and the purpose of course is to allow, in the case of your presentation, those from Ethiopia, for whom Canada is a new country, to participate. The bill restricts the Chief Electoral Officer from doing that, and leaves it to the political parties, who say that they're educating people anyway, and it's in their best interest.

We in the NDP are concerned that this is too narrow a focus. Political parties are all about electing people, and we think the Chief Electoral Officer should continue the work of educating the broader community and working with communities. I just wondered if you would expand on that, on how important it is for your community to have that kind of education as to what our system is and the thinking behind it, and that the Chief Electoral Officer should continue to play the role he's playing, rather than cutting out the Chief Electoral Officer and only relying on political parties.

Just what are your thoughts on that, sir?

[Wosen Yitna Beyene]

Thank you very much.

Again, thank you for the remark about my country of origin.

This is a very critical question in terms of who will be continuing to educate new Canadians and all other Canadians to be actively involved and meaningfully participate in the electoral process. From my reading, until now the Chief Electoral Officer and Elections Canada have been doing quite a significant amount of educational processes and educational work, to the extent that I have seen a budget of about $1.6 million for educational work in the year 2012-13. They have been making educational materials in different languages. They have been partnering with community organizations that have been working along these lines, and doing a lot of promotion and advertising in various media to educate the community. These are all critical things to really create meaningful participation for newcomers.

Again, from my learning about Elections Canada, the parents in the school play a significant and meaningful role in terms of supporting their young voters, young children, in the voting and the democratic process. Based on the data, about 46% of youth are getting this education in the schools, and also the parents. This has been part of the process through Elections Canada and the authority that is given to the Chief Electoral Officer.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Very good.

[Wosen Yitna Beyene]

So that will create a huge void. My question would again go back to the committee. If not the Chief Electoral Officer and Elections Canada, who will be doing that? Will there be a commitment in terms of putting resources back in place to make these educational processes happen?

Community organizations like the Ethiopian Association could be a good partner in terms of the context and the customization of these educational processes, making it very appropriate in the language, culture, and more importantly, in really dealing with the political culture and political experience of new Canadians to build on their country of origin.

As you all know, most countries, say, in Africa have a very troubled political process, and election and voting is quite a strange or new concept per se for some people. So there should be a huge educational process.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Excellent. Thank you so very much, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Just under two minutes, thank you.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Exactly.

Mr. Beyene, thank you so much for coming, I think you've done an excellent job briefing us all on the importance of public education and outreach in new immigrant communities,.

I wanted to turn to Ms. Barr and Ms. Remund.

You've both emphasized something I thought was really quite important; you both used an expression very similar or identical to the idea of one citizen helping another. The idea of dignity that evokes was really quite striking to me. I think it's quite important, also, when Mr. Richards was maybe suggesting that there are some kinds of limitations on who can vouch for whom. There are no limitations at all in section 143, other than being a co-citizen in your polling division.

So I'm wondering if you could speak a little more to the whole question of the dignity of voting for the people you work with, and why somehow or other we should not be losing sight of that.

[Leslie Remund]

The people we work with face oppressive circumstances daily in their lives. Poverty is constantly seeking and searching to get your needs met. One of the beauties of the community I talk about is, when one person has groceries, for example, what you'll see in the Downtown Eastside is that they'll share those groceries with their neighbour. It's so someone is not poor and hungry; they both have something.

I think when there's a natural deficit in the community, something steps into that, and that's really the human spirit of kindness. One of the things I see that people are fighting for in our community is agency. I think there's nothing more that gives you agency in society than placing a vote. I will say there are political buttons in our community of all parties. There's political discussion that happens. It's an equalizing factor for us all. It's one of the very few things that's not based on economics or status in our society. Placing that vote and having a say is the one place that we are all equal.

[An hon. member]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Scott, thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Simms for seven minutes, please.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you.

Thanks for coming here and thanks for joining us through video conference.

One of you said—and I apologize for forgetting who—to get an ID, you need an ID, which are words I have not heard here yet, and actually it's a valid point. Quite frankly, I think it's the most salient way to say this.

When you hear about 38, 39, or it could be 100 pieces of ID, once you get past the basic few, it becomes further out of reach for the average citizen, certainly for those who are impoverished. There are examples that you gave: leases; mortgages; the bills, provided they come through the mail. The basic stuff now comes down to a health card, and unfortunately, it does not contain the address, which makes it that much more problematic. Let's assume they can get the attestation that's being discussed here. How difficult do you think that is to get?

[Leslie Remund]

I don't know that the attestation itself is that difficult. We talked about cultural norms. I think the other thing we have to talk about is community norms. We have seniors in our community who have been going to the same cheque-cashing place for 30 years, to the same bar—that's actually their living room because they live in a little hotel room.

Identifications in our communities are also often because there's history: “I've known you this long”, right? We have doctors who don't ask for the care card because they've served that person for 20 years.

So I'm not sure if I'm answering your question. I think what I'm trying to say is in the absence of identification, people have created other norms and those norms are alive and strong in our community. Certainly we don't have a lot of people ask for attestations. We willingly provide attestations.

But not all of the people in poverty are living in a shelter either. So I think that's the other thing. There are a lot of people in our community who are what I would call under-housed. So they're sharing small places, or they're living in the single-room occupancy hotels that I'd talked about. So not all poor, homeless, or precariously housed people have that option for the attestation. Did I answer your question?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

But it's not a normal thing? Let's put it that way. You don't see this happening too often?

[Leslie Remund]

No.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

And it's a new practice that will have to be introduced.

[Leslie Remund]

And it has some complications to it, where you have to be verified at the election. I can't just write a letter and hand it to someone; there's a verification process. A certain person at the shelter has to sign it.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Right.

When I deal with seniors, one of the things they lean on heavily is the voter information card. It is quite possibly one of the most famous things we use, and it almost seems to me now that with the new rules and the way they are, I don't even know if Elections Canada can really communicate to the point where they can tell people, “By the way, you can't use that anymore”.

So I don't know what kind of a public campaign will be in place to do that, but you're familiar with that obviously because you both mentioned it. But it is something that the population, the people you deal with, rely on heavily when they go to vote.

[Leslie Remund]

Yes. Most of the people who I know who are voting are using the voter identification card. It's a common practice because they don't have ID.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's correct, obviously. But what's the most common identification card that people would have that you deal with?

[Leslie Remund]

I wouldn't have the answer to that.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Can I venture to guess, say, the health card?