Evidence of meeting #69 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gifts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Right.
When you look into these, can you give a guesstimate of the percentage for which you feel there is merit to the claim, those for which you actually do a thorough investigation?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I would say it is somewhere between 25% to 35%.
I have to say this: sometimes the complaints are made in the open, which is why I have that other recommendation, and it's purely political.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
And that's what I wanted to get to. When you look at the numbers, what percentage of them would originate from another member or from a caucus issuing the concern that someone might be in conflict?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It's always from another member.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Oh, it's always from other members.
So there are no situations in which you get Joe Public coming forward and saying—?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Oh, yes. There are situations in which, if Joe Public comes forward, I'll listen because I have the right to self-initiate a complaint.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No, I actually self-initiate more than I do the complaint-based ones.
February 19th, 2015 / 11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Is that right?
Typically, if someone complains about something, the complaint obviously has a fairly significant impact on the individual being complained about. How long does it usually take for you to do an initial go-over to see whether there is in fact any merit to it? And if you find that there's really no merit, how long does it typically take from the time you're notified to the time in which you could somewhat vindicate...?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Under the code there is a requirement that I do a preliminary review of 30 days. I'm allowed 30 days, and in that 30 days I notify the person complained about concerning the problem and I listen to what they have to say. I may do a little other peripheral asking around, but not much. Then, at the end of the 30 days, I determine whether it's a legitimate complaint and then I proceed to the investigation.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
What you're asking for now by way of a different approach is that if a member of Parliament were to say, “I have an issue with another member of Parliament and I would like you to investigate”.... What are your expectations, if you were to get what you wanted, of the MP who is making those allegations?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I wish he wouldn't call the press in before I have even received the complaint. I also wish he would give us a little bit of time too to let the poor guy who is complained about know that a complaint has come in. It's a matter of a day or two, and then I would let them know.
That's the nub of my recommendation there.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
In essence, the MP can still go to the media, but prior to going to the media—
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
—he should at least give the other guy a chance to know that it was coming.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Right.
And that's the form of the recommendation that you're putting forward.
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's what it is, yes.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Okay.
I also want to comment on recommendation number 23—your final one—in which you're talking about implementation of a code of conduct.
Do you already have something in mind? Is there some other legislature or parliament that actually has a code of conduct that you're thinking of?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I don't have a specific code of conduct in mind. There are studies going on, as we mention in this submission. There's a Commonwealth organization doing a bit of studying, and they're gathering together information on codes. I haven't done a specific study on that.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Right offhand, do we have some other government that currently has something like this, such as the U.K.'s?
11:55 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I don't think we have at the moment, As far as I'm aware, they're just thinking about it.
11:55 a.m.
Sherry Perreault Director, Policy, Research and Communications, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
A couple of jurisdictions have put in place codes of conduct that incorporate the gamut of obligations, including conflict of interest as well as personal behaviour.
The Commonwealth Parliamentary Association is looking at a variety of different jurisdictions for examples of this, and they have developed draft benchmarks for good governance, specifically looking at codes of conduct.
In those draft benchmarks, they have put the recommendation that every jurisdiction have, for example, rules around declaration of assets and rules around declaration of private interests. They also have in place what they call etiquette standards, and these include behaviour around attendance in the House of Commons, harassment issues, personal conduct, partisan behaviour, and so on.
That particular association has gone some way, and they're just in the process now of consulting on those benchmarks.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
As of right now, we're not necessarily aware of any country that has incorporated—
11:55 a.m.
Director, Policy, Research and Communications, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
We would have to look into that and get back to the committee.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
There would be some benefit. From a personal point of view, I'd be interested in something of that nature being possibly provided to the chair.
11:55 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
We're not necessarily proposing that we look after some of those matters, but these matters need to be addressed.