Human Resources Committee on Dec. 8th, 2011

[Glenn Nolan]

If I may speak, from our company, we want to maximize. We think putting a ceiling on a percentage of what we want to hire in the way of an aboriginal workforce is doing the aboriginal workforce a disservice. We want to hire as many as possible. We have a small camp right now, but we went from less than 10% to over 50% of our workforce being aboriginal two years later.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

I wasn't looking at suggesting putting a cap on it. It affects the rest of immigration and your other policy to actually try to fulfill some of your requirements, right?

[Glenn Nolan]

Yes.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Go ahead, sir.

[Ryan Montpellier]

I think the objective of most mining companies is to have a workforce that is reflective of the communities in which they operate. Certainly, mines that operate in northern communities want to have a larger participation of aboriginal people. But there are traditional mines that are almost in urban centres that have very little participation of females, for example, and there are a number of reasons for that. But efforts are being taken today with respect to workplace diversity, with respect to inclusion initiatives—efforts that some of the more established mines as well as some of the new mines are taking to institute practices, policies, and just a culture, in order to be much more diverse than the industry has been in the past.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay.

Obviously this is almost like hitting the lottery with the amount of work that's coming into that area and the potential for it. Is this actually having a positive effect on the local community or is this creating additional problems that we should also be addressing?

[Glenn Nolan]

I think with any kind of development, regardless of where it occurs, you're going to have social problems that accompany it. It's just the nature of the influx of new workers and money—having money when individuals never had that amount of money before. We've seen it time and time again in any kind of project. I think companies, though, are very aware of that. As part of our agreement with aboriginal communities, we deal with the social issues that we know of, and we deal with them through discussions with the communities. They help us identify other areas where they may have concerns, and we will try to deal with that through our impact benefit agreements, or whatever the agreements are called.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Are there any other comments?

[Scott Jobin-Bevans]

I would just add that this is not unique to Canada. There's a very large global population of competition out there. Call it any number you want, it's a critical issue of 100,000-plus workers in 10 years. We're facing the competition of exporting our skills, and that's happening all the time, so take that as a minimum.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Do I have time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Your time is up.

We'll move to Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you.

I'll be sharing my time with Madame Moore.

I just have a very quick question for Mr. Montpellier.

At the beginning of your presentation you talked about the sector councils. Of course, they have provided excellent labour market information on long-term human resource planning. What kind of impact do you see with the change in funding?

[Ryan Montpellier]

There are currently 34 sector councils in Canada. A number of the sector councils developed over the years, and I think some were providing very solid labour market information and intelligence for their sectors while others were maybe not as relevant for their respective sectors.

I can only speak for myself and the mining council. The change in funding will certainly have a significant impact on the organization. However, I think we've established strong partnerships with the mining sector and have a fairly diversified funding base at this point, so we will continue to provide labour market intelligence to our stakeholders. They certainly value it and are willing to fund portions of it.

We're in the midst of a bit of a transition as an organization, but our priority remains to provide accurate and timely labour market intelligence and solutions to the industry's human resource challenges.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

As we know, without accurate and timely long-term information, it's difficult to make the kind of investment we're talking about in these skills.

[Ryan Montpellier]

Absolutely. I've been with your organization for eight years, and eight years ago mining companies were not talking about workforce planning. It was very much dictated by ore out of the ground, production for the quarter, and quarterly results, and you didn't see workforce planners employed. The position didn't exist in mining companies

Today you see a lot more of that. Mining companies are taking a much more strategic and long-term approach to workforce planning. They're not just looking six months out; they're looking two, five, and ten years out. They know it's workforce planning for the life of the mine, not necessarily for the quarter. I've seen a change in the industry's approach to human resource management and workforce planning.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Great. Thank you.

I'll turn it over to Madame Moore.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have a few questions for you about mining. I come from the mining region of Abitibi-Témiscamingue, in Quebec. I have become quite familiar with the industry. It is becoming increasingly common for manual labourers to not be hired by mining companies, but rather by subcontractors, who are in turn hired by mining companies. The wages those subcontractors pay are not very different from those mining companies pay. However, training and skills development programs are provided by the mining companies themselves. That means that people employed by subcontractors cannot participate in those programs. Yet, they are the ones working in the mines.

How can we ensure that manual labourers can develop their skills and acquire new skills if they are not directly employed by the mining companies, but rather by subcontractors who do not offer those programs?

[Ryan Montpellier]

Actually, businesses outsource skills development. That's a problem, and it is a trend that has developed in the industry over the last few years. However, subcontractors also have access to the mine. They are usually the ones providing training in the mines for large mining corporations. Some agreements on training are in place between subcontractors and large mining companies.

That's also a way for large mining companies to recruit. They entrust subcontracting companies with recruitment. These subcontractors are therefore responsible for recruiting and training workers. Once those workers have been trained, large mining companies coach the employees and bring them on board.

That system has developed over the last few years. I can't say that this is the best practice, but it is how mining companies have decided to recruit.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

There is nevertheless an obstacle involved. Let's take the example of someone who has undergone professional training and wants to go through technical training at a college. If that person was employed by a mining company, they would have access to the company's grants and special programs used for fostering its employees' professional development. However, as they are employed by a subcontractor, they don't have access to that.

People often work for some 10 years for one subcontractor or another before they finally get hired by the mining company itself. After 10 years, they no longer want to go back to school for training. Who would want to spend three years in college, running around and studying like crazy, with children waiting at home? People—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Ms. Moore, your time is up. I've allowed you to go a little extra, but if you want to conclude, maybe give a short response.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It's just that they cannot go to school while they still want to.

[Ryan Montpellier]

You are right. That's an accurate picture of the current situation in mining. I can only tell you that subcontractors are now beginning to offer similar programs to their employees, as they also have to get through this difficult period. It is currently hard to recruit workers and hold on to them. So, subcontractors are also trying to keep their workers by making the same programs available to them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

We'll move to Mr. McColeman for five minutes.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, gentlemen, for being here today.

It's reminiscent of industry discussions that I had, prior to becoming a politician, in the construction industry as the head of the Ontario Home Builders. I really am biased, and I'll state my bias.

I think the two programs you have talked about, Mining Essentials and Mining Matters, are industry-driven. Is that a fair comment? They're driven by the actual players in your industry. They know what their needs are; these are a creation of industry players, companies, and associated beneficiaries, I suppose, of the mining industry coming together and saying, this is what we need and we're going to create it.

This is a lead-in to my question, which is, what more can be done by the industry beyond this? You have a critical issue. It's actually, from my point of view, a good problem to have. I'd rather have this kind of problem as a businessperson versus no prospect of jobs and having to hand out pink slips.

I guess what I'm asking is, what are you hearing from the other companies? Ultimately the companies are there to make a profit and prosper, and in the process, everybody prospers—or their corporate responsibility is to make sure everybody prospers across the communities they're involved with. I think this corporate responsibility is being mentioned, not only by our previous witnesses but also by yourselves.

In terms of solutions going forward, do a bit of blue-skying here for us, if you wouldn't mind. Make comments about where you see the industry could drive it and take it into the future. Just go across the table, if you wouldn't mind.

[Scott Jobin-Bevans]

I think there is obviously that fundamental drive by industry to improve their industry, so they're going to be at the table all along. I think it's the real, on-the-ground, in-the-field skills development that we're missing in this country. If we had schools that were more technically based or hands-on technical-type schools, colleges, and that sort of thing....

It's not really the upper end that the industry is actually after at this point. It's more the labour side. It's more the geotechnicians—the people who have skills for not only mineral exploration and the fundamentals in mineral exploration, but also just practical experience. I don't know if that helps.

It's something that we notice. You can have BScs, MScs, and PhDs, but that's not really what's required.