Evidence of meeting #41 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jobs.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karen Kinsley  President, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Karen Jackson  Senior Associate Deputy Minister, and Chief Operating Officer for Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

I will call the meeting to order.

I'd like to thank the minister and the officials for appearing before the committee. As is normally the practice, the minister will have an opening statement and then there will be questions from the various parties with respect to the statement. I would give the minister about an eight-minute warning and then at ten minutes we'd like the minister to conclude, if she could. The parties are anxious to be sure we get suitable rounds of questioning in.

So if everyone's earpieces are working, we will commence with the minister's presentation. Thank you, Minister, for appearing, and go ahead with your presentation.

3:35 p.m.

Haldimand—Norfolk Ontario

Conservative

Diane Finley ConservativeMinister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Thank you.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, I am pleased to speak on the 2012-2013 main estimates for HRSDC and to present key elements of our government's economic action plan 2012.

As I said when I met you in November, Canada's performance in terms of jobs and growth is very encouraging, but we cannot be complacent. In the short term we need to deal with the lingering effects of the recession and get our economy back on a solid path of economic recovery and growth.

But we also have to take the long view and consider the interests of Canadians, not just for the next few years but for the next few decades.

I believe the two biggest challenges that we are facing are demographic change and the skills gap. The demographic challenge can be articulated very simply. Our population is aging, with the proportion of retired Canadians increasing relative to the proportion of those who are working and active in the labour market, and this trend will accelerate. Today, there are four people of working age for each person over age 65. By 2030, instead of a ratio of four to one, that ratio will only be two to one.

This trend has implications that we need to address. The most obvious one is that an aging population puts pressure on the retirement income system. Canadians are living significantly longer than they did when Old Age Security was first introduced in the 1950s—and they are collecting retirement benefits for a much longer time.

OAS, quite simply, is unsustainable on its current course. Specifically, in 2012, the costs were $36 billion, and according to Canada's Chief Actuary, by 2030, they will be $108 billion and will account for roughly 25% of all federal program spending. Therefore, our government is taking action to protect OAS for future generations by gradually increasing the age of eligibility for old age security from 65 to 67, starting in the year 2023.

We will also offer older people assistance and financial incentives to stay in the workforce. For example, starting in July of next year, we will offer Canadians the option to defer collection of their OAS and subsequently receive an actuarially adjusted higher pension. In addition, we will proactively enrol more seniors in OAS and GIS, removing the need for them to apply themselves, and save costs at the same time.

We believe that all of these measures will improve flexibility and choice in the OAS program and keep it sustainable for future generations.

Our second biggest challenge is the growing skills shortage in this country. We're already starting to experience acute labour and skills shortages in various regions and sectors throughout the country, and those will only continue to grow. More and more, our productivity depends on our ability to work smarter rather than harder. Our greatest assets are our human resources in the form of skilled, educated, and adaptable people.

As Minister of Human Resources, I'm very concerned about the fact that in some areas we have high unemployment, and yet in those same regions we often experience labour shortages. Last year more than 250,000 jobs in Canada remained unfilled.

Part of the problem is that there is a mismatch between the skills that employers need and the skills that are available in the workforce. That is why, over the past three years, in collaboration with the provinces and territories, our government has made huge investments in skills training and employability programs.

In the economic plan 2012, we are intensifying those efforts. Besides our general labour market programs, we also have targeted initiatives for youth, all the workers, aboriginal people and people with disabilities.

I recently spoke to the G-20 labour and employment ministers conference about youth employment.

Countries around the world are exploring every possible way to meet the challenge of employment for young people, and I was happy to be able to share our experience and best practices and to learn from others.

In Canada, youth employment is challenging, there is no question. The unemployment rate there stands at just under 14%. As I stated to my global colleagues, there unfortunately is no silver bullet to resolving this issue. But the situation in Canada, fortunately, is better than for most other countries.

Many young Canadians, who could be launching their careers and contributing to the economy, are held back because they aren't prepared for the demands of the workplace. Sometimes it's because they lack basic skills. Sometimes it's because they don't have the specialized knowledge that leads to good jobs.

We know that, in today's labour market, two out of three jobs require some form of post-secondary education. And we are taking a multifaceted approach to support skills development and education programs.

The Government of Canada is committed to making post-secondary education accessible and affordable for all Canadians.

We invest over $10 billion annually in support of post-secondary education, we have boosted education transfers to the provinces by 70%, and we are giving more direct support to students through various forms of financial aid. In the 2010-11 school year, the Canada student loans program provided loans and grants to approximately 445,000 students.

We are also helping students to manage their debt through the repayment assistance plan, otherwise known as RAP, under which borrowers pay back only what they can reasonably afford. In the 2010-11 school year, the RAP assisted approximately 165,000 borrowers who were having difficulty with repayment.

Just recently, we also announced that we are increasing the income eligibility thresholds for part-time student loans and grants.

Of course, a degree is not the only ticket to a good job. To help meet the rising demand for skilled workers, our government also provides cash grants to encourage young people to pursue apprenticeships in the skilled trades.

Sometimes, the greatest obstacle to a young person getting a job is simply a lack of experience. That's why, in EAP 2012, we're also reinvesting in our youth employment strategy, which helps young Canadians prepare for the labour market and get that all-important first job.

Our goal is to get as many Canadians working as possible. And if they lose their jobs, we want to get them back to work as quickly as possible.

We want to ensure that Canadians are always better off working than not.

EAP 2012 has introduced new measures to make the employment insurance program more efficient and more effective for Canadians. We are working to remove disincentives to work, improve the information and support provided to Canadians, and ultimately better connect them with jobs in their local area that match their qualifications.

The changes being introduced to EI are not about forcing people to move. They're not about attacking certain regions of the country.

The changes are about improving a federal system so that Canadians better understand the expectations we have of them while they are on EI. They are about making sure that Canadian workers are made better aware of the opportunities available in their own geographic area.

Ladies and gentlemen, they are about helping to ensure that employers have better access to available Canadian workers before hiring temporary foreign workers.

To conclude, Mr. Chair, our government has been clear that our priorities are: job creation, economic growth, and Canada's long-term prosperity. My department continues to be a key driver for these objectives, both today and tomorrow.

I would now be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you, Minister. You were done in good time.

We'll have rounds of five minutes. We'll be watching the time relatively closely.

We'll start with Ms. Charlton.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being before the committee today.

I'd like to start off, first of all, by just saying that your portfolio has such breadth and your comments alluded to the number of programs you're responsible for. I wonder whether you'd be amenable to perhaps spending a little more time with us this afternoon, perhaps until the bells start going at 5:15. I think committee members would be really excited to spend a bit more time with you this afternoon to get to some of the other questions we have. Would you be amenable to that?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I'd very much like to. Unfortunately, I do have other commitments that I can't move at such a late notice.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

All right. We'll chat some more in an elevator.

Let me start, first of all, by addressing some of the questions I have about Service Canada. As you know, Service Canada, for the last six months at least, has struggled to deliver an adequate level of services to Canadians who are applying for EI, CPP, or OAS.

Staff at EI call centres have shockingly high rates, as you know, of long-term disability leave, especially when compared to the rest of Service Canada. Yet, when I look at the estimates before us, why is the budget for citizen-centred service being chopped by nearly 30% and for staff by 2.8%?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

As you're aware, we have gone through an exercise looking at where we can get efficiencies in our performance, how we can do things smarter, better, so that we can serve Canadians better and faster. That's part of the explanation.

Part of that, too, goes to some other initiatives under way, such as Shared Services Canada, which will be relieving a number of departments across government of things that they're doing, duplicating each other, where they could be more efficient if administered centrally, thereby reducing the costs within the department. It's a bit of both.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Surely, if your goal is to deliver better and more effective service, the objective isn't met by working your staff until they go on long-term disability. Surely, the answer is to add resources and to staff the service centres appropriately, is it not?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Not necessarily. We live in a very modern age, and quite frankly, any—

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Where long-term disability is the answer?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I'm sorry?

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

We live in a modern age where long-term disability is the answer?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

No, no, if I may finish. You suggested that we should be adding more people, and I said, not necessarily.

We live in a modern age, and I think it's incumbent upon us to take advantage of technology. That would mean less duplication of effort and that would mean less time spent processing claims, so that Canadians could get access to their claims and have their problems resolved in a much more efficient and quicker manner. That's part of the shared services aspect.

Unfortunately, we don't like to see people on long-term disability.

That's an initiative that's being examined across government.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Mr. Cleary.

May 30th, 2012 / 3:45 p.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister.

Minister, the changes you announced to employment insurance last week are making waves, as you know, right across the country, especially in Atlantic Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador. One would assume they're going to involve considerable monitoring of the behaviour of EI claimants. At the same time, your government is cutting in terms of staffing and budgets—the cuts we've heard about now for weeks, for months—for both citizen-centred services and integrity in processing.

My question is this, wouldn't any new moneys be best spent on helping claimants as opposed to harassing claimants?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

In fact, that's exactly the goal of our EI reforms. It's to help people find jobs within their skill range, within their geographic area, especially in seasonal regions where it may be tougher to find those jobs. We're also making changes to the system that removes barriers and things that discourage people from working part-time in the off-season.

We want to make sure that Canadians have every opportunity to get connected with jobs that will make them and their families better off. We think that's a good idea.

Right now, things exist within the system that really do discourage people and are not, shall we say, conducive to improving the standard of living of those families. We're working to fix that.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Minister, where exactly do you expect people in rural areas of Canada, specifically outport Newfoundland for example, to find alternate employment? They live sometimes hours away from bigger centres. Where do you expect them to find that work?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Mr. Cleary, your time is just about up. I'll let the minister continue to answer that question.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

We're quite aware of situations like that, and that's why each of these cases will be looked at on the basis of fairness and reasonableness, based on individual circumstances and local labour market conditions.

But we do want to make sure that instead of automatically turning to foreign workers, employers say, “Wait a minute. We have Canadians here who we haven't been able to identify who have the skills to do the jobs.” We want to make sure that those Canadians get connected with those potential employers, wherever possible, as quickly as possible. If there are no jobs available locally within their skill range, those people will still have the same access to EI.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you, Minister.

Now we'll move to the next round of five minutes.

Ms. Leitch, go ahead.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Thank you very much. Thank you Minister, deputy minister, and others for being here today. I greatly appreciate your attendance at committee.

As you know, our government has been focused on providing significant opportunities for students and young people, both part-time and full-time students. We've recently announced the elimination of interest payments on Canada student loans, for example, for part-time students. As you mentioned, Minister, the increase in the income eligibility threshold for Canada student loans and grants resulted in another 8,000 students being eligible for Canada student loans and another 1,500 students being eligible for Canada student grants.

Once they have that great education, they're going to transition into a job. I was very pleased to see the government's recent commitment of $50 million over two years to enhance the youth employment strategy, the YES strategy, which is a very important initiative for assisting young people in getting that step into the labour market. In my own riding of Simcoe—Grey, this would be the extension of something like the tracks program in Collingwood, which has been a fabulous program linking young people with that first great job.

I was wondering if it would be possible for you to highlight for us some of the recent and past initiatives our government has undertaken to help young people find that first great job.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Well, thanks.

As I mentioned in my speech, one of the critical challenges facing us as a country is going to be the skills gap. That's why, as a government, we've made unprecedented investments in things like universities and colleges and their infrastructure, so that they have the capacity, first of all, to provide young people with the skills they are going to need for the future jobs.

We also need to help these students, in many cases, connect with the jobs. That's why we have the youth employment strategy. I, too, was pleased with the extra investment this year.

There are three main streams of the youth employment strategy. One is the Canada summer jobs program that helps well over 30,000 students each summer get real experience that will often help them prepare for their future careers. It also helps them finance their way through further schooling.

There are two other aspects to it. One is the career focus program, which helps post-secondary students or university students who are graduating who are trying to find a job. They may have a lot of different challenges finding a job. The program is there to help them identify what to do, where to go, and how to get those jobs.

Then there's the skills link program, which has been very successful in helping young people from, let's say, challenged backgrounds. They may be from broken homes, have addiction issues, or even have some learning disabilities. It helps these young people to, first all, identify what they'd like to do and what they'd be good at, and then it teaches them how to pursue the jobs and how to do the interview. It gives them a work placement, since the lack of experience is often the single biggest barrier to getting their first real job. I've personally seen some tremendous achievements by thousands of young people in this program. It has been really great in helping young people get attached to the labour market in jobs that suit them. We're pleased with that and pleased to move forward with the additional investment in these programs.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

I completely agree. I was just at Covenant House in Toronto last week where the skills link program is definitely flourishing.

I think all members of this committee, as parliamentarians across the country, would comment and say that the Canada student jobs program does benefit young people in their local ridings, no matter where they come from.

Minister, in budget 2012, there's an emphasis on jobs, growth, and long-term prosperity. One of the issues we've heard a great deal about at this committee, and also in travel, is the difficulty older workers are facing in re-entering the workforce. Some of them have been in their current roles for 10, 20, or maybe even 30 years. I was wondering if you could comment to the committee on what the government is doing to assist those older workers who may need to be transitioning into new roles. What are we focused on, and what is your department focused on?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

During the global recession, a lot of older workers took a particularly tough hit.

There were two categories, in some ways. There were the long-tenured workers, those people who probably got a job manufacturing straight out of high school, developed a lot of skills on the job but not necessarily the paperwork to show that they had them. These people had not had to look for a job for an awfully long time. Some of them were pretty hard hit during the global recession. We provided extra employment insurance benefits for them. We provided access to career adjustment training in significant amounts.

We also expanded something that we were pleased to bring in called the targeted initiative for older workers—those aged 55 and up—who lose their jobs through no fault of their own. They may have limited skills and may even be in an area where there are limited opportunities, but they certainly haven't had much opportunity or reason to go looking for a job. We help them in many ways through many different aspects of the TIOW, first of all in how to look for a job and how to match up what skills they have with what jobs are available.

In many cases that was done in partnership with community development projects that were looking for people who have the maturity and the work ethic that develops often over the years. A lot of these people had those skills. We're seeing again tremendous success in helping these people get back to work quickly and in helping them adjust.

Quite frankly, we need their skills and talents at work. There are too many people out there who do not recognize the value that older workers provide. Looking around this room, I'd say there are a lot of us who are pretty close to that 55-year-old age, if not on the other side of it, or who will be soon.

3:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!