Evidence of meeting #5 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Association of Medical Radiation Technologists
Thank you.
It's both. When the program started there was a shortage of medical radiation technologists, for the same reason Christine Nielsen mentioned. With the economic downturn a couple of years ago, retirements have been put off, so we have been finding that there's not the same degree of shortage as there once was. We anticipate that it will not be many years before it's back in force, so I think it's intelligent to have a program like this in place that is helping prepare people and that will also be there when more internationally educated MRTs think about coming to Canada after hearing there is a strong shortage here.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And thank you also to the witnesses for coming out this afternoon.
In Canada, Mr. Chair, each province and territory has their own law societies. But at the same time, the Federation of Law Societies of Canada has created a body called the National Committee on Accreditation.
This NCA basically assesses lawyers who have obtained qualification from foreign jurisdictions and they apply uniform standards on a national basis. Once they assess and evaluate the person's education, that potential lawyer can write exams in any jurisdiction or province or territory in which he or she wishes to practice or pursue their profession.
This question is for everyone. Do any of your organizations have any intention or are you moving toward a similar direction in which you have a national standard to assess foreign qualifications?
5:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Association of Medical Radiation Technologists
I'd be happy to start responding, Mr. Shory.
Yes, in fact, the current project that we have with HRSDC has been to establish a national standard. We look after I think seven provinces, but Quebec, Ontario, and Alberta have regulatory bodies and they do their own assessment. But what we have done is come together to make certain we have common standards across all of those.
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Society for Medical Laboratory Science
Thank you for the question.
That is the model we have at the Canadian Society. All of the provinces and territories have agreed to the standard, which is why it's easy for us to administer because the CSMLS doesn't set the standard; the regulators and associations have collaboratively.
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Royal Architectural Institute of Canada
Again, at the end of this process the objective is to have a system in place that would be centrally administered on a national basis by the Canadian Architectural Certification Board.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Thank you.
It was partially answered with that.
First, it was very good to hear you speak well about how you've got to where you are today with these programs and how the federal government has assisted you in getting there. But there's always politics involved here, and you've obviously dealt with different provinces having different requirements and different mandates. As well, I would think there's probably some politics within the profession itself, with some people receptive to this approach and others who would say, well, no, we've got to be a little more protective of our space here.
Could you share any insights, having gone through the process so far?
I might just put my thoughts to this. If you can get, as Christine's association has, a national buy-in from right across the country, it seems to me to be a highly efficient way to go. It would be self-governing really, without the government being involved at all or only involved on a very minor basis.
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Society for Medical Laboratory Science
Yes.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
So can all of you pass on your insights and comments regarding the things I've just articulated?
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Society for Medical Laboratory Science
Sure. We at the CSMLS are very fortunate to be a mid-sized organization. Fourteen thousand members sounds like a lot, but there are only 400 practitioners on Prince Edward Island. In Newfoundland there are only 800, and some don't even have a regulatory body, or they're what I would call a shoebox society, where I'm the president today and I hand off the shoebox when I leave.
It was born out of a legitimate need. Very few had the capacity, interest, or volume of immigration to set up their own program, so they trusted the national body, just like they do for setting the educational standards and the accreditation standards. Years ago, in the sixties, they agreed that would be the model, and our governance model for that program runs like a federation model. Each of them carries a vote. Ontario doesn't carry more votes than a smaller jurisdiction. They all feel they're in it together, and our job at the national society is to identify important things such as language proficiency standards and to have valid and fairly defensible testing programs. We can't set things like having to have Canadian experience. We removed that in 2000 because we knew it was a barrier to immigration.
So I think by approaching it as what's best for the immigrant and what's best for the profession, having a set of standards that are open, transparent, and fair that they've all agreed to.... They do have a sweet deal, though, because I don't charge them any money. I charge the immigrant directly and my society subsidizes the rest of the work. If Ontario were to do it, it would cost them three full-time staff. So it's out of legitimate need that they came to us.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Does anyone else want to comment? Please keep it short because we have one more questioner.
5:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Royal Architectural Institute of Canada
I would just say that the broad experience for a project within the architectural profession takes place in a context where the regulators have already progressed to the point where they recognize certification or licensing across the board. So if you get licensed in Ontario, you can be recognized in New Brunswick and B.C., and vice versa. This is really building upon the progress the regulators have made in terms of working together and harmonizing standards.
5:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Association of Medical Radiation Technologists
Mr. McColeman, I got the sense you were wondering whether there has been a backlash from within the profession to protect jobs. No, we're fortunate. We haven't found that to be the case. On your second point about the associations working together provincially and nationally to help things happen, I think that's something we can do very well, and it could be a real assistance to moving many subjects forward in Canada.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Mr. Cuzner, maybe you can take this all the rest of the way home.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thanks very much.
Thanks for being with us today and sharing your experience.
Could I get clarification first from Ms. Nielsen? You had indicated that your organization's society helps with costing of the processing. Could you give me an example of the costs that you would help with? Are there ceilings? First, do you find that if there isn't assistance with the costing, that may preclude someone from pursuing the process?
Then if the other groups could weigh in as to whether or not they follow a similar form....
5:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Society for Medical Laboratory Science
Sure. At this time my office has approximately three and a half full-time staff assessing only 200 files a year. To compare the cost of a full-time job versus the cost of what we charge an immigrant, we charge a client right now $800 for a process that costs our society $1,650. That's because we view people as individuals. We don't just do an accreditation model where we go to a country like Brazil, accept their credentials, and then they come in. We view the person as a holistic entity. It allows for the best assessment, but it's a costly business to be in. We believe in the outcomes and that they have the best chance of a successful outcome in Canada that way.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
5:20 p.m.
Manager, Special Projects, Canadian Association of Medical Radiation Technologists
The model is a bit different in our profession. As I said, the organizations that conduct assessments are the regulatory bodies of Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, and CAMRT on behalf of all the other provinces. All these organizations use panels of content experts, so the staff is based in the organization only for the administrative part of handling papers and applications. All the assessment and evaluation is done by content experts. The cost of assessment for all these organizations is between $300 to $400 per person.