Evidence of meeting #70 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was deaf.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Cudmore  Executive Director, Prince Edward Island, Canadian Paraplegic Association
James Roots  President, Canadian Association of the Deaf
Robert White  Executive Director, Spinal Cord Injury Canada
Jean Beckett  President, National Network for Mental Health
Diane Bergeron  National Director, Government Relations and Advocacy, Canadian National Institute for the Blind
Julie Flatt  Interim National Executive Director, National Network for Mental Health

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Good morning, everyone. I am bringing the meeting to order.

First of all, I would like to mention to the committee before we start that the briefing book that was provided to us at the beginning of the study contains a description of past studies concerning employment for people with disabilities, with links to those studies and their main recommendations. You may want to make note of that in the event you wish to have a look at those.

I would also inform you that the analysts have prepared a list of recommendations from the latest report of the committee on employability, which had a series of 10 recommendations. Those have been forwarded to the last witnesses from HRSDC, who will be reporting back to this committee with respect to what has been done or not done relative to those recommendations.

Keep in mind that previous studies are provided by link in the material that was provided to us, our briefing book, at the commencement of this study.

With that, I would like to welcome James Roots from the Canadian Association of the Deaf; Paul Cudmore, executive director of the Canadian Paraplegic Association; and Robert White, executive director of Spinal Cord Injury Canada.

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being here with us. We will have each of you present—maybe not necessarily each of you, but I think two of three will be presenting—and after the presentation there will be questions and answers from each of the parties here.

With that, we'll start with the first presenter, Mr. Cudmore.

11:05 a.m.

Paul Cudmore Executive Director, Prince Edward Island, Canadian Paraplegic Association

First, I would like to thank everybody for having us here today. We're really excited about this opportunity to present.

We got our document in a little late and we didn't have it translated. It is being translated and will be submitted later, so we just have the English version now. We apologize for that. You can blame that on me, I guess—slow editing.

We'll get started here. We are with Spinal Cord Injury Canada. We were formerly known as the Canadian Paraplegic Association. We're in the process of changing that name all across the country. We're still the Canadian Paraplegic Association of P.E.I., but we will be changing in September. It just takes a little while sometimes for the process to work through.

We're really excited about presenting in front of you today, the House of Commons HUMA committee, pertaining to employment opportunities for persons with disabilities.

We are pleased to see that your committee has devoted time and energy to examine this very important issue. We are also pleased that employment opportunities for persons with disabilities are being viewed as a priority in moving forward.

We would like to inform the House of Commons HUMA committee that we are in agreement with all components of the presentation the Council of Canadians with Disabilities did last week, on February 28. We would like to emphasize that the Government of Canada should develop a five-year strategic plan to address employment needs of persons with disabilities. Spinal Cord Injury Canada would welcome the opportunity to be part of any technical advisory committee that may arise out of that and to provide community input on this initiative, suggested by CCD, and to have a pan-Canadian representation.

We would also like to stress the five points of the Council of Canadians with Disabilities' key message pertaining to the federal-provincial labour market agreements for persons with disabilities. The federal government must emphasize program targets with provincial governments and ensure the necessary resources are made available to deliver programs to individuals with disabilities.

The sad thing is the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador recently announced they're cutting funding to Spinal Cord Injury Newfoundland and Labrador, in the amount of $900,000. This is going to be a loss of 23 full-time staff, and over 2,600 clients are going to be affected by that. So it's a sad and ironic thing, especially when we're talking about this today.

Today we're going to focus a bit more on an operational approach. There's a project that we did in P.E.I., to give an example of how things can work properly. It's a program called Discovering the Power in Me. This will really help people with disabilities reintegrate into the workforce. We presented this endeavour to HRSDC's call for social bond concepts in December of last year. It's a pilot project that was undertaken in P.E.I. by us and the PEI Council of People with Disabilities, beginning in January of last year, with 10 participants. The program was very successful. Initially, we had eight people out of the ten employed. Today, we have four still employed, and four realized that they wanted to upgrade their skills and returned to university for post-secondary education. It was a very successful program.

I'm going to give a little more detail about how it worked. People with disabilities—as you know, we had a great report—are faced with numerous challenges and barriers as they attempt to integrate into society and secure employment opportunities. The Discovering the Power in Me program, the DPM, was developed in collaboration with the Canadian Paraplegic Association and the Pacific Institute. It's based on decades of research in the fields of cognitive psychology and the social learning theory. It's aimed at people with physical disabilities who have been experiencing significant roadblocks in their journey to independence, self-reliance, employment, and community integration.

The program is designed to build an understanding, with a structured process, of how the mind works and how people can control the way they think to achieve success in any part of their lives. For those with traumatic injuries, for their families, friends, and caregivers, it is more important than ever to corral the power of the mind and focus on a fulfilling, productive life.

According to a major national employment participation study conducted in 1997 by Spinal Cord Injury Canada, formerly the Canadian Paraplegic Association, only 38% of people living with a spinal cord injury are employed. SCI Canada plays a crucial role in providing individuals with spinal cord injuries and other physical disabilities and their families with information through best practices, which give support in education and timely employment referrals.

While 60% of newly injured people integrate successfully back into society—they probably had previous employment and they reintegrated back into the jobs they had before—40% really struggle. That's where CPA and our best practices can come into play.

A lot of them work less than 20 hours a week and are actively seeking full-time employment, or are unable to work full-time and are actively seeking increased employment, or are in receipt of a notice of an imminent layoff, or must leave their current occupation for medical reasons.

The objectives of the Discovering the Power in Me program are to provide comprehensive skills enhancement for individuals with disabilities that will assist them to build and further develop the necessary life skills to better prepare them for future career goals; develop life and employability skills whereby individuals with disabilities strengthen their personal development and independence, and participate and gain employability skills in a safe environment that is conducive to positive learning and assists in building self-confidence before entering the workforce, which is very important; and enable individuals with disabilities to explore and develop the essential skills required for their career of interest through the career exploration component of the program.

The expected results are that all participants in the program will either be employed at the end of the program or will have begun the process to upgrade their skills or training through education in order to prepare them for a new career that they can be excited about. The results are easily measured.

We found with this project that when people went to employment, they weren't satisfied with the level of income they were at and they realized they needed to improve their skills. That's why four left their positions and returned to school. I think they'll be returning to the jobs they've had because they've had so much support there.

At Spinal Cord Injury Canada we have a two-year renewable licence to deliver the Discovering the Power in Me program, and eight provinces have formal training to deliver the program. Its main focus is to enhance employment opportunities for persons with disabilities by assisting them to identify that they have an internal locus of control and are not hindered by their external environment. That is so that people can understand that it's up to them to get through life's barriers and that they can't allow the environment.... When people tell them that they can't go or that maybe certain places aren't accessible, it's up to them to make sure that they get themselves out there, and that they're the ones who control their own lives.

We also work collaboratively with other provincial disability organizations, such as those that have an established employment services program. In P.E.I. we worked with the P.E.I. Council of People with Disabilities, which has 28 years of experience in employment-related services, to partner with our project, because we did the Discovering the Power in Me component of it and they had the life skills component of it. We worked together and we developed a 13-week project out of that for people with disabilities. We also place them in employment for 13 weeks.

In conclusion, Spinal Cord Injury Canada thanks you for the opportunity to present here today. We are of the opinion that our initiative is clearly in line with how the federal government is seeking to improve the lives of Canadians with disabilities.

We hired a facilitator and a coordinator to initiate this project, and they had 13 weeks of classroom training. I'm a trained facilitator for the Discovering the Power in Me component of the project, which takes a week to do, and that was a component that's always been missing in life skills programs in the past because people didn't really understand the way the brain works or what was holding them back.

They were allowed to see what successful people, such as the Rick Hansens of the world, or everybody sitting in this room, think about their future and how they set goals for themselves. That's a component that we found most people with disabilities were struggling with and was missing. They didn't know how to set goals; they didn't know how to think properly. It's that little voice that talks to you all the time. They would think, “I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this”, whereas this program trains their internal voice to think, “I can do this, and this is how I'm going to do this”, and they set their goals and learn how to get the energy to achieve the goals and to think about each step. You don't have to know how to do each step when you set a goal, but when you set your goal, you get energy to do that step. That's the way the project really works.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much for that, Mr. Cudmore, and for your explanation.

Let me just remind the members, as you pose the questions, to slow down a bit to give the sign language interpreters a better opportunity to interpret.

With that, I ask Mr. Roots to make his presentation to us.

11:15 a.m.

James Roots President, Canadian Association of the Deaf

I will attempt to use my voice. If you can't hear me, welcome to my world.

Thank you for the opportunity to talk about employment and people with disabilities.

I am the executive director of the Canadian Association of the Deaf. We are the oldest national disability consumers organization in this country, founded in 1940.

I want to emphasize that we are the Canadian Association of—not for—the Deaf. We are the people who are deaf in Canada. Every one of us knows first-hand what it is to be deaf and to face the unique barriers to employment that exist only for people who are profoundly deaf and who use sign language.

I want you to stop and think for a minute just how much you depend upon your hearing for your own employment. How are you going to function in the House of Commons if you can't hear?

To those of you who work as staff for this committee or for the government, how are you going to do your job if you lose your hearing?

To members of the media and anyone else listening to this presentation, what if you couldn't listen?

If you lose all of your hearing overnight, you will still be able to get along by reading and writing notes, because you already know English or French. You learn English or French or any other spoken language by hearing it.

What if you have never heard it? What if you were born deaf or you became deaf in early childhood, before you learned to read and write?

Our organization's research indicates that as much as 65% of the deaf populace may be considered functionally illiterate. It's not because they're stupid. It's because they're trying to learn a spoken language that they cannot hear.

Unfortunately, for the past century the education of deaf people in Canada has been obsessed with trying to teach us to “hear” and speak instead of actually teaching us academic and practical subjects in the one language that we can and do easily master: sign language.

Is it any wonder that less than 5% of deaf Canadians go on to post-secondary education, or that as much as 91% of them leave high school without a certificate, or a degree, or a diploma?

Now, what are the employment prospects for these people?

In 1989 the Canadian Association of the Deaf conducted an informal poll of service agencies, educators, and community leaders. The consensus of these knowledgeable people was that the combined rates of unemployment and underemployment for deaf Canadians was around 80%.

Ten years later, in 1998, we conducted what is still the only credible data collection with regard to deaf people ever done in this country. We found that the rate of unemployment and underemployment was completely unchanged. It was still 80%.

Let me turn that around and drive home the point. Only 20% of deaf Canadians are fully employed.

Imagine having to report to Parliament and the media and the voters that only 20% of all the people of Canada were fully employed. As I say, that was 15 years ago. No one has done a credible follow-up survey in the intervening years. We have repeatedly applied for funding to do it, but no government wants to provide money to hear that 80% of its populace has consistently been out of work for 35 years. Incidentally, the last time the Public Service Commission was willing to provide us with data on the number of deaf people employed by the federal government, it was 0.01% of the civil service.

I don't want to imply that there's a hierarchy among disabilities, but governments and the private sector are much more comfortable hiring people with just about any other kind of disability than deafness. The reason is simple: you know you will be able to communicate with them; you can talk with them. As long as you can talk with them, it's easy to pretend not to see their disability.

But what's the very first thing that comes to your mind, if you are an employer and a deaf person applies for a job? It's “How am I going to communicate with them?” And then there's the thought of safety issues: “How is she going to know that the building's on fire, if she can't hear the alarm?” There is the issue of expense: “Oh my god, we'll have to spend thousands of dollars on interpreters and visual alarms for one employee!”

Really, it all boils down to your making an assumption that deaf people would be a nuisance to employ. These are systemic and attitudinal barriers that still persist to a very depressing extent all across Canada. It doesn't seem to matter that there are quite reasonable answers to every one of them; we're a nuisance, and employers don't care to expend either the time or the brain cells to find out otherwise.

What are the solutions? Our researchers uncovered an interesting fact. A lot of working deaf people were self-employed, and what they were doing was delivering their services to the deaf community itself, not to the general community, except when they were teaching sign language to non-deaf people. In other words, the only place deaf people were finding jobs was inside their own community; the outside community would not hire them.

With these facts in mind, at the turn of the millennium the Canadian Association of the Deaf negotiated with the federal government to deliver a series of projects that we called the national deaf jobs strategy. With less than $600,000 over a five-year period, we created more than 150 brand-new jobs and training opportunities specifically designed for people who are deaf. That's a cost of just $4,000 per job.

Bang for your buck, anyone? Every one of those 150 people is still employed or self-employed, because we gave them exactly what they needed to succeed. We knew how to do it because we are deaf people ourselves.

All of the federal funding programs that enabled us to create these lasting new jobs have been killed off. They have been replaced by...nothing. Supposedly, relevant funding was downshifted to the provincial and municipal governments, but those have done nothing.

You have to be proactive in tackling the deaf employment crisis, and most importantly you have to be willing to let the deaf themselves design and direct the programs and the resources. I know that the idea of the federal government providing funds for a national body to meddle in provincial jurisdictions of employment and training is against everything the present governing party believes in. But just as in governing Canada, you need a trusted central authority to receive revenues and distribute them through provincial affiliates in order to deliver jobs and training at the grassroots level.

That is exactly the same structure that we have in the Canadian Association of the Deaf. That's why we were so effective and cost-effective in creating new opportunities with our national deaf jobs strategy.

The Internet is proving to be potentially the greatest ever self-employment outlet for deaf people. It is the greatest ever tool for making it feasible for deaf people to work outside their own community, whether for someone else or for themselves. It is the ideal way for us to overcome systemic workplace barriers, discriminatory attitudes and practices, and the tyranny of the voice telephone.

We need your help to maximize the abilities and resources of deaf Canadians to become Internet entrepreneurs, workers from home, remote employees, and mobile online workers. We need your help to utilize Internet-based video technology to deliver training and education to deaf Canadians in their natural language, the language of sign.

We have proved already that a deaf-controlled national deaf jobs strategy can deliver far more successful results than anything that any level of government or any private sector employer has ever delivered, before or since. We are calling on you to recognize this truth and to make recommendations to support the funding of a new national deaf jobs strategy.

Or do you want us to go back to our community and tell them that the government doesn't think an 80% unemployment and underemployment rate is such a big deal?

Thank you.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you for that presentation, for sharing with us some rather stark statistics, and for sharing the need for us to be proactive to deal with the deaf employment crisis. Using the Internet is an interesting tool. We certainly appreciate that and all of your other comments.

We will now turn to Madame Perreault, for five minutes.

Go ahead.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Manon Perreault NDP Montcalm, QC

My question is for Mr. Roots.

I read recently that 5.6% of public service employees have a disability. And, as we know, the public service is being downsized. Since most people with disabilities are employed under contract, the number of them working in the public service will likely drop even lower. By the way, people who are deaf make up 0.1% of the public service.

The government is supposed to lead by example, when it comes to the private sector. But given this situation, what can it do to improve its employment equity policy?

11:25 a.m.

President, Canadian Association of the Deaf

James Roots

It has to be a targeted recruitment campaign. That can be done through certain service agencies that cater directly to us. Or you can always work with us, the Canadian Association of the Deaf, since we're the federal one. There are no national service agencies for the deaf. There are only provincial ones. We are the national agency for research, information, and community action, not direct services, but for something like this, we could provide direct services.

But it has to be a targeted effort.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Manon Perreault NDP Montcalm, QC

It was said earlier that data was critical to understanding the more complex situations affecting the employability of people with disabilities. However, Statistics Canada's Participation and Activity Limitation Survey was eliminated in 2010 and replaced by a database containing information on taxes, social assistance and so forth. That new methodology will have an impact on sampling.

Given that the long form census was eliminated, do you foresee the new surveys being less and less reliable?

11:30 a.m.

President, Canadian Association of the Deaf

James Roots

It's never been reliable, from our perspective. When I joined the Canadian Association of the Deaf in 1986, my very first battle was with Statistics Canada over what was then the health census, the health and activities limitation survey. That was the first disability census.

I'm starting to lose my voice; I'm sorry.

The problem was with the question involved in the census—and in tax data too, with the disability tax credit. The problem there was that the wording does not match what deaf people understand. For example, on the long census my favourite question was, “Do you have a disability”, blah, blah, blah—“something that limits your activity” or whatever.

Deaf people don't believe they have a disability; they believe they are a linguistic and cultural minority, because we have our own language, our own culture. It's different, distinct, and is recognized by the United Nations and by the linguistic association.... I forget the full name of that place.

We are a distinct minority group, not a disability group. When people see that question, “Do you have a disability”, they say no. So they're not counted as disabled. You get a distorted portrait of how many deaf people there are.

Well, the long census is gone now, and I'm still fighting with Statistics Canada over the terminology to use. I had a human rights complaint against them, which was finally settled about one month before the long census was torn up. It was all based on the long census, on making it more accessible and compatible for deaf people. We got the agreement and then, boom, it was the end of the long census. The agreement is all dead now. I don't expect any other kind of household data or tax data or anything to come up with reasonable data.

That's why I said that this is the only credible data collection ever done about deaf people, because we did it ourselves. Deaf people went into the deaf community. That hasn't happened.... Nobody has done that before or since.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you for that intervention, Mr. Roots.

Your time, Madame Perreault, is up.

We will now move to the next questioner, Mr. McColeman.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for coming to Ottawa today and for being such strong advocates for the groups you represent here today.

I might have missed it, so forgive me if I did, but both witnesses here today have relayed percentages to us. Do you have actual numbers of people who are within your organizations or whom you're representing in the broad range of people with spinal cord injuries or who have the disability of being deaf?

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Prince Edward Island, Canadian Paraplegic Association

Paul Cudmore

Do you mean the number of people in Canada who have spinal cord injuries?

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

Yes.

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Prince Edward Island, Canadian Paraplegic Association

Paul Cudmore

It's 80,000 people, I believe—86,000 people—

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

Okay, it's 86,000—

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Prince Edward Island, Canadian Paraplegic Association

Paul Cudmore

—and there are 4,300 new injuries a year.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

Okay.

Mr. Roots.

11:30 a.m.

President, Canadian Association of the Deaf

James Roots

There is no credible statistic. Again, I'm sorry to repeat myself, but there's no credible statistic. What we have traditionally done is go by the one-to-ten rule in comparing with American numbers. By that rule of thumb, there are 350,000 profoundly deaf Canadians using sign language, but there are an additional 2.95 million people who are hard of hearing and don't rely on sign language. They're usually lumped together with us, but they are disabled and we are not. We're a minority group; they're a disability group. Do you understand?

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

Thank you for that.

I'm curious to know, because you've been involved with this for some time in both cases, whether you have had successful partnerships. Mr. Roots has described one that goes back to one with the government. Have you had any other partnerships—outside of government, with non-government agencies—over the years to do the work that you wish to do for your communities?

11:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Prince Edward Island, Canadian Paraplegic Association

Paul Cudmore

Usually, if you partner with another non-profit group....

We work with something called ParaSport. In P.E.I. we do peer events, such as sailing or something like that, or we have cooperatives and we work with the Council of People with Disabilities for employment projects.

But usually you have to have a funding source for these projects. When you say it's a government-type funding project, then you work in partnership with the other organizations to present the project and have success in it. That's usually the way it works.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

On that note, Mr. Cudmore, is there any private industry or are there private corporations that partner with you on any programs?

11:35 a.m.

Robert White Executive Director, Spinal Cord Injury Canada

Actually, we partner with other organizations as well, from a national perspective. We have partnerships with banks. Our revenue across Canada to operate our organizations is $23.5 million. Fifty per cent of that comes from partnerships with the business community. So yes, we partner with different types of organizations, whether banks, local corporations, or national corporations. We also do a lot of work with MS, MD—all of those organizations as well.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

Mr. Roots, what is the case in your community?

11:35 a.m.

President, Canadian Association of the Deaf

James Roots

The partnerships we've had for employment were part of the national job strategies. It's really a three-way partnership: the federal government, us, and a few employers.

There's one painting company that hired 10 people for us and kept them working. I believe there's a bank.... I had better not say or try to remember which one it was; I don't want to offend any bankers. There was a bank that we had a placement with.

But for the most part there's a very great resistance out there. They say, if we're going to train this person, we have to hire an interpreter 24 hours a day; we have to provide all the visible smoke alarms. That's not the problem, but there's such a resistance anyway.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

To extend the question I just asked, do you foresee...? There's a recent panel, which the government put together, in the general category of persons with disabilities. I don't know whether you've read it, but Rethinking DisAbility in the Private Sector is the title of its report. It talks about champions within the private sector; it talks about companies that are ready to take on this challenge.

Do you see potential here, or is that just an unrealistic expectation? What's your view?

Mr. Cudmore.