Human Resources Committee on March 6th, 2014

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here.

There are a couple of things. Steve has referenced it and it has been referenced before, just with the culture and some of the considerations around culture. I think every workforce has its own culture. The guys on the bus were saying they brought in a new fleet of rookies and security guys. One of the guys showed up 10 minutes late with a Starbucks in his hand, so he had enough time to stand in line for the Starbucks, but he was 10 minutes late. I should say, he's a former cadet. So stuff like that is part of the culture that you have to understand.

When I worked in Fort McMurray, for a couple of guys who worked with us there was an accommodation made. Every year when trapping season would start, they'd be able to take time off. It was a really cool thing that there was no problem with adapting. They were excellent workers and important members of the crew, but that accommodation would be made.

Are we getting better? Ms. Hunt, you say you have 16 relationships now. Are companies getting better at recognizing the importance of accommodating some of the cultural aspects of aboriginal first nations workers?

[Karin Hunt]

Culture works both ways, of course. We work toward being able to provide awareness to industry and to employers about the aboriginal culture, but we also work very hard to prepare our young folks for the culture of the industry. Every industry has its own culture, so it's necessary to do that cross-awareness.

We have discovered that over time—say, the last 10 years—there has been a significant improvement in terms of industry, employers, trade unions coming forward and wanting to do business with the first nation communities, wanting to engage our labour pool and prepare them for their particular placements. We have found that trade unions in particular have been very eager to sit down to talk with us about preparing our folks for their particular industries, and the majority of the agreements that we have are with trade unions.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Williams, you talked a little bit about the summer job situation and the loss of summer jobs.

Did your group have particular access to program funding? There was a loss of 54 summer jobs, I think you said. Was that under youth employment strategy funding, or was it under a different program that you would have had and now are—

[Steven Williams]

It was under youth summer jobs. It was cut in 2011. We lost a number of jobs there, 54 for the 11 first nations in our territory and 21 in the urban area. We lost those jobs because the money was just taken out, and then they had to apply under different funding. That was based on the MP's area and whether they thought it was a priority. Aboriginal people weren't a priority in any of those MP areas.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Obviously it would have been a priority prior to that.

[Steven Williams]

Yes, it was always a priority. With some of the students going back to school, the summer jobs were the only way they could get enough money to live throughout the year, because we don't get enough money for tuition on reserve, or their books, or anything else. So that's the money they had to use to try to keep going to school themselves.

That stuff just didn't seem to work. It was cut. It was a good program; it just got cut for some reason.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Finally, I know you have just opened up a new training centre at Fort McMurray. Is there a target for bringing in first nations students? Do you have people from the first nations community on staff there to help with the training, if there is a component there to help with first nations training?

[Steven Schumann]

Currently, training in Alberta is very different from what it is in the other provinces. A lot of it is run by SAIT and NAIT in Alberta, so we're very limited right now in the training we can do. Up in Fort McMurray, too, we're quite aware of the cultural awareness issues up there. They currently do not have an aboriginal coordinator. This is something they're looking at with the new centre opened, which we're expanding. It is something we're reaching out to.

But Alberta is a prime example of a place where we have some issues and concerns around unionized training centres, for various reasons. There are some misconceptions out there and some work we still have to do. Alberta, unfortunately, is one area that we and unions as a whole need to work on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you for that round.

Now we move on to the last questioner in the first round, and that would be Mr. Shory.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming here and assisting the committee to complete this very timely, needed study of how to improve opportunity for aboriginals in the workforce.

Mr. Williams has made a comment quoting Prime Minister Harper. We all agree, as Ms. Crowder said as well, that definitely there is a gap. Concerning the gap, my question will be to Ms. Hunt, about your organization.

Would you share with the committee what your organization is doing within itself to help bridge the gap between aboriginals and the workforce? We certainly have a demand. We certainly have a segment that could be very useful in getting to those highly paid jobs that were mentioned. They are pretty highly paid jobs.

What is your organization's role to bridge the gap?

[Karin Hunt]

We work with industry in the different sectors. For example, we will host sessions just for the industry in transportation or in construction or in the energy field. We bring them to our table, feed them, and then provide them with information on the kinds of services we have available, the kinds of training that we develop specifically for them. So we work with the industry to develop a training product just for that industry.

We have discovered that these are the most successful programs of all, because the industry then sends their team to work with mine to develop a product that is going to make the transition into their workforce much smoother.

One key example has been the relationship with CN Rail, through which their staff and mine developed the training tool we would use. As a result, our people feel very comfortable when they go into the interview process with CN Rail. They're acing those interviews, and CN Rail is hiring quite a high number of them and sending them on to be conductors in Edmonton and Winnipeg.

So we have proven that the model whereby we develop the product in partnership with that industry is the one that works.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Certainly it establishes that you have links with the private sector. It seems that you have a good relationship with the private sector and it seems that it is effective as well, from your last comment.

What are the participation rates in urban versus rural areas? Is there a significant difference in the impact on local economies in these differing areas?

[Karin Hunt]

There is a difference in terms of participation between the urban and the rural, primarily because the training locations can often be situated in the urban setting, which requires people to come to the city to take the training program.

There is work being done, and we are hoping to encourage government to provide the resourcing, to see the training programs take place in rural and semi-remote settings. As you can appreciate, the cost of doing this is significantly higher than the cost of having training in the urban setting. But growth is going to be taking place or is taking place in a number of different economic sectors on the traditional territories of the first nations people. In cases such as these, the first nation communities are really the logical place to look for an available labour pool when, for example, it comes to building natural gas pipelines or mining or exploration on traditional territories. All of this is work that first nations people can engage in. It's in their backyard.

It is critical, then, to enable the opportunity to let the training take place in the rural setting. The cost, as I said, is certainly higher for doing so, but then you're not faced with the other challenges of people coming to the urban setting. There is housing, there's child care, there's transportation, all of which become added factors.

I'd like to see more programming right in the rural community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Mr. Shory, five minutes goes very fast, sir. I know you understand that and I appreciate your respecting the time. Thank you.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I was just about to ask a question about Brantford.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Well, maybe in that case....

I am ending the morning session just a little short because we have to take time at the end of our meeting today and I want to be fair to the second panel that's about to provide testimony.

But first of all, I would like to thank you on behalf of this committee for your taking the time to be here today and providing input into this study. It's a very important study As we've heard from many witnesses, the untapped potential of first nations people, with whom many of us have had experience in life, as I mentioned earlier—they are some of the best employees you could ever have on a job. It's important that we have your input, and we thank you for it today.

So thank you for being here. We'll suspend, not adjourn, for a time to switch groups.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I'd like to call the meeting back to order.

Welcome back, everyone, as we continue in our second hour of meeting number 15 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

From now until approximately 10:40, we are grateful to be joined by Ms. Heather McKenzie, president, and Ms. Rhonda LaBelle, executive director, from the Cariboo Chilcotin Aboriginal Training Employment Centre.

Did I pronounce that correctly?

[A voice]

Correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Good job, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Mr. Cuzner. You're very complimentary these days.

We're also joined by video conference from Regina by Mr. Jeff Ritter, chief executive officer with the Saskatchewan Apprenticeship and Trade Certification Commission.

We'd like to turn the meeting over to the witnesses.

I believe it's Ms. LaBelle who is going to be doing the presentation from her organization.

Please proceed for 10 minutes.

[Rhonda LaBelle, Executive Director, Cariboo Chilcotin Aboriginal Training Employment Centre]

Thank you.

On behalf of CCATEC's board and directors, it's a pleasure to be here this morning presenting in front of the standing committee.

I've been asked to talk today about best practices, opportunities in our region, some success stories, what's working and what's not, and the help required.

As some background on CCATEC and our best practices, we've been delivering aboriginal programs for over 20 years. With these years of experience, we've been able to respond to the needs of first nations and of the labour market within our region. Services are provided to unemployed aboriginal people living in the Cariboo Chilcotin. We're centralized in B.C. I've attached in our packages for you a marketing package that lists our programs and services so I won't go into detail. Further on, you may have questions in regard to that.

We have long-term directors on our board with various skill sets who are well-informed about our programs and services. Accountability...we're very accountable. Over and above our ASETS requirements, we hold annual community forums with our first nation communities and we report on our activities and our program funds. All aboriginal leadership are invited and we also share this report with our program partners. I've brought a sample of one of our reports for you to also take a look at for your information.

We have good accounting financial practices in order. We've also recently received a quality assurance monitor from Ottawa and we receive high praise for our program file management and for our internal controls. We have the ability to leverage funds from various service providers and various funders.

At CCATEC we share our resources with other ASETS across Canada, such as our business plans, our operational plans, and our internal forums. CCATEC is a member of the First Nations Human Resource Labour Council in British Columbia and we also sit at the technical working group here at the Assembly of First Nations.

As for some of the opportunities in the Cariboo Chilcotin, we're very resource-based with mining, tourism, forestry, and agriculture. We have a great need for trades, labourers, environmental monitors, business providers, administration services, health, and...in all areas. It used to be that there weren't a lot of opportunities for aboriginal people in remote and rural areas aside from band administration. But now with the burst of economic development in the resource industry, there's a wealth of opportunity for us in the Cariboo Chilcotin region.

Employers are coming to us and want to hire aboriginal people as opposed to importing workers from other places. They're seeking good job referrals from our ASETS at CCATEC office. We've implemented a new tracking system, ARMS, and now we can link the employer directly to the client.

Some of our success stories—we've had the ability to design and deliver results-based programming in partnership with local employers, public and private training agencies. That allows us to respond to the real labour market need. I'm just going to share a few of our success stories with you today. We recently designed a sawmill program in partnership with the Tolko sawmill, West Fraser plywood plant, and the Williams Lake pellet plant. We hired a training agency to deliver the program. As a result, we had six real jobs out of the 12 people finishing. We've incorporated cultural components into all our mainstream programs, thus making the program more attractive and highly successful.

We hold cross-cultural workshops. One specifically was for the Gibraltar Taseko mine and we opened one to the city of Williams Lake, with Mount Polley, Horton Ventures, and the RCMP all in attendance.

We recently just completed an early childhood diploma program with 15 of the 16 employed. Many of them are employed at our day cares on reserve, which is critical. Some of the long-term jobs have been secured. Seven years ago, we ran a women's job readiness program. One of the ladies received a job at the 7-Eleven. It was an entry-level position. Seven years later, she is a day manager at the 7-Eleven. When I go in there, I still see her and she thanks CCATEC for that opportunity.

Another real good success story is that we ran an office assistant program five years ago. The young lady received a job at an employment agency and she's still employed, so the long-term employment is critical for our aboriginal people.

We continue to support trades. We have one fellow who is in his third year of electrical and he looks forward to finishing next year. We still struggle with our trades opportunities in our region.

CCATEC receives a small budget of $2.2 million annually. In 2013, we provided skill development to 1,396 aboriginal people who participated in these skill development programs.

We secured 413 jobs for our small region. Many were part time and seasonal, but we did receive some full-time jobs. We had 199 return to school also with our summer student program. This demonstrates cost effectiveness with the limited budget we do have. We're competent in monitoring systems and follow-up and that has resulted in higher success in completion rates and return to employment.

Among the things we see that are not working is the federal government contracting with other groups under the skills partnership fund that are in essence duplicating the work of the ASETS agreement holder. This creates a lot of confusion for the clients and employers.

In Williams Lake there's probably a population of 15,000, and 30,000 with the surrounding area. We have a skills partnership across the street from us, and the clients are often coming in asking what's what. Employers are also asking who they should work with for the aboriginal communities. The reporting guidelines under the skills partnership fund are nowhere near as rigorous as the ASETS reporting guidelines, and it's frustrating to see the difference in accountability.

The labour market agreement has not been favourable for aboriginal people in British Columbia, as the aboriginal training dollars seem to be awarded to the colleges and the universities. Client assessments are not being completed on the labour market agreement clients, resulting in clients coming to our agency, as they're losing their income supports from employment insurance and social assistance. There seems to be no holistic approach with those assessments.

Also not working are partnerships with the province and the labour market agreement holders. The reporting burden has exhausted our staff, with ongoing requests for additional information and ongoing requests for the same information in different reports. Also the labour market agreement funds do not cover administration.

We're finding if difficult to meet targets with a 1996 budget with increased tuition, wages, and just the general cost of living.

What's working? CCATEC is successful, and I'm very proud to work with this organization. Our board and our staff and our communities are accountable and cost effective, with really good results. The support of our first nations is also working locally, provincially, and nationally, as is our ability to provide flexible programming that leads to employment. We thank the federal government for that opportunity.

Multi-year funding has provided long-term planning and delivery. Our board goes into planning every second year. We plan for our budget and the activities we're going to undertake based on the labour market need.

We're working with other ASETS agreement holders on common interests, such as a technical working group and the First Nations Human Resource Labour Council. Communities, employers, and aboriginal organizations support our ASETS and want to see us continue.

We're able to meet employment targets on a stretched budget, and we've established really good partnerships.

Help is needed. A 10-year strategy would be great, enabling ASETS holders to focus on the aboriginal employment needs, increasing the participation in the labour market. We need more help to develop strong essential skills and trades programming. Grade 12 and driver's licences are the two number-one barriers for the Cariboo Chilcotin.

We need capacity development with more interaction with federal staff at the local and regional level via ASETS workshops and information sharing. For example, we recently received the NARAM survey from HRSDC in Ottawa. Many of the ASETS as well as CCATEC do not have the capacity to undertake these tasks.

Business and operational plans need more support from regional staff, such as having regional meetings with ASETS holders to review. We used to have those meetings on a regular basis. This would eliminate unnecessary calls to HRSDC.

An administration budget that would be separate from the current program budget would be great. The child care budget needs to be increased to include off-reserve children. Urban funds need to be increased, as some aboriginal people are moving to the urban centres.

In closing, I'd really like to thank you for this opportunity to present the work that CCATEC is doing in the Cariboo Chilcotin.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much for your presentation.

Now we'll move to Mr. Ritter by teleconference. Go ahead for 10 minutes, sir.

[Jeff Ritter, Chief Executive Officer, Saskatchewan Apprenticeship and Trade Certification Commission]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I very much appreciate the opportunity to present to you today, especially by video conference.

Saskatchewan and the Government of Canada have a shared interest in ensuring that aboriginal people are full participants in the economy and have meaningful employment opportunities. The Saskatchewan Apprenticeship and Trade Certification Commission—that's a bit of a mouthful to say, so I'll refer to it as the SATCC from here on—has a vision of a skilled and representative trades workforce, which is industry trained and certified. The mandate of our organization is to develop and execute a relevant, accessible, and responsive apprenticeship training and certification system to meet the needs of employers, apprentices, journeypersons, and tradespersons.

In Saskatchewan, the number of registered apprentices in the system continues to grow along with Saskatchewan’s economy, which of course results in increased needs for skilled labour. As of June 30, 2013, there were 10,023 apprentices registered in Saskatchewan. At that same time, there were 1,383 aboriginal apprentices registered with the SATCC. This is 13.8% of all apprentices, which is only 1.5% less than the aboriginal population in Saskatchewan.

One of the strategic goals of the SATCC is to encourage under-represented groups to partake in the apprenticeship system and to work in careers in the skilled trades. One of our strategies is to increase the number of registered apprentices in under-represented groups and also to provide more access to apprenticeships for them by removing barriers. Saskatchewan’s aboriginal population is increasingly young, growing, and in many cases, located in close proximity to major resource development projects.

Significantly, a large portion of aboriginal youth on reserve is dependent on income assistance. There are currently 17,400 first nation income assistance recipients on reserve in Saskatchewan. Of those, it is estimated that 13% or roughly 2,200 individuals are 18 to 24. Income assistance beneficiaries, including dependants, represent approximately 48% of the on-reserve population.

Supporting aboriginal youth in securing long-term attachments to the labour market will of course benefit aboriginal communities, employers, businesses, and the provincial economy by reducing dependence on income assistance, helping to address persistent labour shortages, and building opportunities for economic growth.

But to be an apprentice, a person has to be employed. One of the biggest barriers to apprenticeship is finding employment with an employer who will sponsor their apprenticeship. This can be a barrier for many reasons, particularly for many under-represented groups, including first nations and Métis, such as lack of essential skills or transportation or available child care.

Of particular note, it's difficult for first nations people on reserve to continue with their apprenticeship training. This is due to lack of employment in close proximity and a tight attachment to their community. On-reserve training requires additional financial supports, as well as opportunities for paid work experience or employment transition.

The Conference Board of Canada estimates that if Saskatchewan businesses employed aboriginal people at a rate equivalent to the non-aboriginal population, economic activity in Saskatchewan would increase by $1.34 billion in 2015, rising to $1.8 billion in 2035.

The SATCC’s mandate is not pre-employment training. However, the commission recognizes the need for increasing aboriginal employment in the skilled trades, and our organization provides $400,000 in funding each year to the aboriginal apprenticeship initiatives. These are initiatives that are proposed to the SATCC, and often include pre-apprenticeship training or part of apprenticeship training, which is usually done on reserve or in a first nation community

The Government of Saskatchewan’s efforts to engage the first nations and Métis workforce include partnerships to transition people from federal income assistance on reserve into training and jobs, addressing the wait-list for adult basic education, investing in post-secondary education and training for first nations and Métis people, delivery of provincial training programs on reserve, and new support for driver training for youth living on reserve.

A joint task force was established in 2011 by the Government of Saskatchewan with the goal of identifying solutions to address gaps in education and employment outcomes between first nations and Métis people and non-aboriginal people. Public consultations were held and 25 recommendations were brought forward to the Government of Saskatchewan in April 2013.

There are 10 new Active Measures partnerships, primarily including work readiness programs in training and employment centres in partnership with first nations and Saskatchewan colleges. Linking training with economic development activities is particularly important to first nations and Métis.

As of January 2014, the unemployment rate in Saskatchewan was 4.3%. The first nations and Métis unemployment rate is much higher at just under 11%, 10.9%. While this rate has dropped by 2.1% over the last year, there is still much work to be done to bridge that gap.

There is lots of potential for on-reserve businesses in the skilled trades that could further enhance employment in first nations and Métis communities. Some of those businesses could offer entrepreneurship opportunities, employment opportunities. They would have some competitive advantages, and they would be models of success within the community.

Programs that provide connections with employers and employment, and offer quality training to industry standards, paid work placements, and the commitment to enter and complete apprenticeships will see much success in this province. Examples of these successful programs can be found at the Regina and Saskatoon Trades and Skills Centres.

In closing, we look forward to working with you on future apprenticeship initiatives. The Saskatchewan Apprenticeship and Trade Certification Commission is very well-positioned to work with the federal government to pilot any initiatives that will come forward, especially those that will assist young people to engage in employment opportunities and enter into and complete apprenticeships.

I thank you very much for your time and I look forward to working with you.