Human Resources Committee on May 15th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to meeting 24 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today is May 15, 2014, and for the next hour we'll be finalizing our committee's review of the main estimates.

To that end, we're very pleased to be joined today by the Honourable Kellie Leitch for her first appearance before the committee as Minister of Labour.

Welcome, Minister.

Joining the minister we have Ms. Hélène Gosselin, the deputy minister of labour; Mr. Kin Choi, the assistant deputy minister of compliance, operations, and program development from the labour program at ESDC; Mr. Anthony Giles, assistant deputy minister of dispute resolution and international affairs from the labour program; and finally, Mr. Alain Séguin, the chief financial officer.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Minister of Labour]

No, that's not what he does, but he's excited about the promotion—as am I.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

No kidding.

Okay, what is the correct title, Mr. Giles?

[Anthony Giles, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs, Department of Employment and Social Development]

I'm the acting assistant deputy minister. My real job is director general of strategic policy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you for correcting the record.

To committee members, we do have witnesses for 45 minutes after the minister. We also have 15 minutes of committee business at the end of today's proceedings. The rounds will be seven minutes for questioning.

Minister, please go first with your presentation.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to be here today to appear before the standing committee to answer questions about the main estimates and to speak to you about the work of the labour program.

The labour program works with federally regulated employees, unions, and workers, as well as provincial and territorial ministers of labour, to promote safe, healthy, and productive workplaces across the country.

Our mandate includes enforcing the Canada Labour Code, which covers industrial relations, occupational health and safety standards and employment standards.

We also negotiate and implement labour cooperation agreements with Canada's free trade partners, and represent Canada in multilateral organizations dealing with labour issues, including the International Labour Organization.

Our government strives, at all times, to balance the interests of workers and employers and promote safe, health and productive workplaces for all Canadians.

Please excuse my French. I have only been learning it for about eight weeks, but I'm giving it the college try.

The last time I was here, I was actually with Minister Raitt and Minister Finley. This committee received some information about the Helping Families in Need Act, which provides financial relief and job protection to working parents who must take time off from their jobs to either take care of a critically ill child or deal with the trauma of a missing or murdered child.

This legislation meant a lot to me. I am very pleased to see that our government has strengthened the legislation further by enhancing access to employment insurance sickness benefits for claimants who receive the “parents of critically ill children” and compassionate care benefits.

Now, as Minister of Labour, I am continuing our government's efforts to improve the well-being of Canadian workers and employers across the country.

I'm proud to say that, under the leadership of this government, the labour program has an excellent track record. In many areas we are exceeding our targets.

Our government is currently pursuing the most ambitious trade expansion plan in our country's history. In less than seven years, Canada has concluded free trade agreements in nine countries and is negotiating with 30 more. Just recently, we announced free trade agreements with South Korea and Honduras. We are creating jobs and opportunities for Canadian workers and exporters by deepening trade with Asian and South American markets, which are key economic priorities for our Conservative government. I would like to assure all members here that we are firmly committed to ensuring that all agreements signed by Canada are in the best interest of hard-working Canadians.

As Minister of Labour, I am happy to say that while we're working hard to advance our historic trade agenda, our government is ensuring that international labour rights and obligations are respected. We continue to demonstrate on the international stage that a competitive economy includes a safe, healthy, and productive workplace. That is why the labour program is advancing negotiations on several labour cooperation agreements alongside these free trade agreements, committing Canada and our partners to maintaining international labour standards for all workers.

Canada currently has labour agreements with the United States and Mexico, Chile, Costa Rica, Peru, Colombia, Jordan, Panama, and Honduras. Labour cooperation agreements support our free trade agenda and defend Canada's competitive position by creating a mutual respect on labour rights and seeking to ensure that our trade partners do not gain any unfair trade advantage by not effectively enforcing their own labour laws.

Our government is pleased to work with our partner countries to ensure mutual prosperity within the region and achieve greater levels of international cooperation on labour issues.

Canadians have told us, time and time again, that what they want most of all are jobs, growth, and economic prosperity. These labour agreements contribute to this goal by creating a level playing field for Canadian businesses while expanding our markets and creating good, well-paying jobs.

As an orthopedic surgeon—a pediatric one at that—I'd also like to emphasize that our government is committed to protecting child rights and eliminating child labour around the world. This is why the labour program negotiates commitments to abolish child labour and eliminate forced and compulsory labour in its labour cooperation agreements.

In addition, the labour funding program supports technical assistance projects to help Canada's free trade agreement partners meet these commitments, including through strengthening labour administration and labour inspections.

I am particularly pleased about our performance in industrial relations.

The labour program plays a significant role behind the scenes helping employers and unions build and maintain cooperative relationships, thereby contributing to Canada's continued economic prosperity. We have mediators and conciliation officers who help at every stage of the collective bargaining process, even before formal bargaining begins. In 2012-13, with the help of our government, 94% of all disputes were settled without a work stoppage. This level of success has been a consistent pattern for the past five years.

We also have labour standards officers who ensure that employees working in federally regulated workplaces are protected.

As I just said, we also have labour standards officers who ensure that employees working in federally regulated spaces are protected.

Mr. Chairman, our government believes that all Canadians have the right to work in a safe and healthy environment. To make sure workplaces are safe, the labour program conducts proactive inspections, investigates complaints, and raises awareness about workplace safety laws and best practices. We're seeing excellent results. Over the period of 2007 to 2011, the number of disabling injuries has decreased by 22% for all federally regulated sectors.

As stated in the most recent budget, our government is firmly committed to delivering lower taxes, less red tape, and a balanced budget by 2015. That is why we will continue to exercise fiscal restraint while maintaining the highest level of service to Canadians. We are implementing cost-saving measures to modernize the labour program, to cut red tape, as I said, and renew our operations and program delivery.

We are modernizing our core business and enhancing service delivery. By way of example, we received an additional $1.4 million in operating funds because of these efforts for the wage earner protection program, which provides financial support to workers who lose wages when their employers go bankrupt.

This additional funding and our partnership with Service Canada are helping us deliver benefits to applicants more quickly.

This additional funding and our partnership with Service Canada are helping us deliver benefits to applicants more quickly. The labour program continues to replace its paper-based services with electronic tools to further reduce red tape and administrative burdens on small businesses, while making it easier for employers to comply with regulations.

This has been particularly useful for employers submitting their required reporting on health and safety as well as employment equity.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, we in the labour program never forget that our government is focused on helping create the conditions for continued economic prosperity, and we're doing our part, striving to balance the interests between workers, employers, and the Canadian public at all times. A safe, healthy, and collaborative as well as productive workplace are part of our winning formula for economic growth and a better standard of living for all Canadians.

For me and I think for everyone at the labour program, our goal is to make sure we have safe, productive workplaces and to make sure that every Canadian working in a federally regulated space goes to work healthy and happy and returns home to their families exactly the same way at the end of the day.

Thank you very much and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll move now to our first round of questions, and Ms. Sims for seven minutes.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and welcome to the committee, Minister, your virgin visit, so to speak.

Minister, I know, and I've heard you say this a number of times, that health and safety is a priority for you. However, C-4 changed the definition of danger, and that continues to concern me. I wondered if there isn't a kind of a contradiction between saying it is a priority and then making it more difficult for an employee to refuse to work in what he or she perceives as danger. Now, under the new rules, it has to be serious and imminent danger for the claim to be accepted.

So, Minister, my first questions are, please define what you consider “serious and imminent” and why did you change the definition?

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I think the most important thing with respect to the health and safety of Canadians in the workplace—and I want to be absolutely clear with respect to this—is that our focus remains making sure that these individuals are safe in the workplace. The ability to refuse dangerous work continues to apply. You know, I think it's extremely important that we are all cognizant that this is a group responsibility. Employers, employees, and also those of us at the labour program—the health and safety officers who help with inspections, training, and education—are focused on making sure that individuals know what their rights are, when they can refuse work, and also when they may be in imminent danger.

Broadening a definition, which is what has occurred here, is something that I think Canadians appreciate because broadening a definition provides them more opportunity to make sure that they are safe in the workplace. That's what I truly believe that those health and safety officers we have on the ground, the employers working diligently to have a safe, healthy, productive workforce, as well as the employees that I think look out for each other on the work site, are really striving to achieve. So the broadening of the definition, I think, is in the interests of Canadians because it provides them greater opportunity and more flexibility to step forward when they're concerned about a specific issue.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I've worked in this area of health and safety a fair bit in my previous life, and I absolutely agree that it is not one side that has to provide all the solutions. It is something best done in partnership.

So, Minister, what I heard you saying is that “serious and imminent” actually make it easier for people to refuse because you've broadened the capture, rather than what was there before.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Well, the issue is—and you keep saying “serious and”; it is “serious or”—we all have a responsibility to make sure workers are very specifically well-trained to understand that they can refuse work at any time.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Minister, that's good to know—that they can refuse work at any time.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

If they're in a dangerous circumstance, they have the opportunity.... I want to be absolutely clear with everyone here and also with Canadian workers that they have the opportunity, if they view themselves in any unsafe scenario, which they view as dangerous, that they move forward to make sure that their employer understands so that we can rectify the circumstance.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Minister. I have a number of questions and very limited time.

Now, these changes that were made, were they based on internal discussions or were other people consulted besides public servants? Were studies referenced? Who was consulted when these changes were made?

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I think it's very important to understand that the labour program and particularly our health and safety officers have a continual mechanism for feedback.

I will have the deputy comment on this as well, but these decisions were made from information that was being received from health and safety officers as well as from individuals who are employers and employees. I think it's extremely important that people understand that.

The best answer to these challenges on the ground in a work site is not coming—no offence—from us. It's from those people who are working in those workplaces. I think, Ms. Sims, you would agree with that. If you were involved as a health and safety inspector or officer in the past, you would understand that those people on the ground understand the scenario. They recognize what the challenges are and how best to solve them.

What we try to do, in the decisions that are taken at the labour program, is to consult widely, get information provided to us, and then move forward.

The deputy may have a comment with respect to that as well.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I have a follow-up question for you, Minister. If an employee perceives that there is a risk of longer-term health implications but no immediate implications, can that employee refuse work?

I'm going to give you the example of asbestos. When I was in my other life, employees would refuse to work where there was exposed asbestos. There may not have been immediate danger, but there was long-term danger, as you know, with it.

What happens in that instance? Can that employee refuse work?

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Absolutely. That is considered a serious risk to one's health, and employees can absolutely move forward and consider themselves at risk. I would therefore encourage any employee who finds themselves in that circumstance, whether it involves asbestos or a long-term serious health impact—and we know there are several work site issues that create that phenomenon—to please move forward and make sure that you're refusing work if you're placed in that circumstance, so that we at the labour program, as well as the employer with those employees, can rectify the circumstance. That's by far the best scenario.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

The department has stated that 80% of the danger claims made are not legitimate. What happens to the 20% of claims that were legitimate under the old definition? How are they not now disadvantaged by the definition change?

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I want to be very clear. When we receive complaints, every one of them is examined. It's not that we take 80% and say that we never looked at them. Every single complaint that comes to us we take a look at. Then, on the advice of the health and safety officer—and Kin Choi may have some comments with respect to this, as this is the field for which he is the ADM—we evaluate and move forward.

I'll let Kin walk through the details with respect to the specific 80%.

I can walk through them too, but would you like to, deputy?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

We're very close to being out of time, so give just a very quick answer, please.

[Hélène Gosselin, Deputy Minister of Labour, Department of Employment and Social Development]

I'll just say briefly that the 80% weren't deemed illegitimate. It was that more than 80% of the decisions regarding refusals to work were decisions of no danger.

We will continue to investigate all refusals to work that come to us. The intent of the change was to clarify the definitions, so that the workplace parties themselves could address more of these issues in the workplace. That's how the internal responsibility system process is meant to work under the Canada Labour Code.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much.

Now we move on to Mr. Armstrong for seven minutes.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the minister and her officials for being here this morning.

Minister, as you know, our government introduced the economic action plan of 2009 to respond to the global recession. Canada has not only recovered all of the output and all of the jobs lost during the recession, but we have exceeded pre-recession levels. Over the last four years, employment has increased by more than one million Canadians. This gives Canada one of the strongest records on job growth among G-7 countries over this recovery.

Our government has recently introduced economic action plan 2014, the next chapter in our plan, which will lead us towards a balanced budget by 2015.

Minister, with that information, could you please inform the committee how the labour program has contributed towards balancing the budget while maintaining the high quality of service that we provide for Canadians?

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Armstrong. I appreciate the question.

The labour program plays a very important part in fostering Canada's prosperity, and economic action plan 2014 was obviously a component part of that. It aims to achieve a fair, safe, and productive workplace through an efficient regulatory framework.

Effective labour relations and laws and policies, particularly in the area of occupational health and safety, help businesses succeed. Economic action plan 2014 showed that Canada has one of the best job creation records of the G-7 countries since the recession.

The federally regulated sector of employers and employees plays a vital role in this by generating economic activity and providing, quite frankly, the critical infrastructure for the Canadian economy as well as some of the essential services for our national economy. The productivity of the federal sector needs to be stable for those things to be achieved. We know, whether in the case of a port or of our national rail service, that making sure we can move goods and services across the country in a safe and stable manner means that the Canadian economy will be able to move forward.

Under part I of the Canada Labour Code, which establishes the framework for labour management relations to conduct collective bargaining—for which, as I mentioned in my opening statement, I think we have an excellent track record, with 94% of disputes being settled by mediation or otherwise—the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service aims to make labour relationships cooperative and productive, so that we have a stable environment. It has offered, through preventative mediation program services, which were expanded in budget 2011, the capacity for that stability, or a safe and healthy workplace, so that we have more productive employees who are able to contribute to the economic growth of the country.

Workplace accidents and injuries obviously have been declining because of the work that has taken place under the labour program, working with employers and employees. Fewer injuries mean a more productive workplace, which means a forward movement with respect to the Canadian economy.

We also play a role with respect to strengthening our trade relationships. As I mentioned in my opening statements, the labour cooperation agreements that we have with numerous countries facilitate and aid our expansion of our trade agenda as a country, and that can only contribute to the economic wealth of our country and the prosperity of Canadians.