Human Resources Committee on May 27th, 2014

[Mathew Wilson]

I'll be short for a change. I agree.

I don't have much to add.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I'd like you to speak to the business standpoint, because business leaders are struggling with the issue as well. What mechanisms could be created to really engage all sides on the issue?

[Mathew Wilson]

I'll go back to some of the comments I made in my testimony. The frustration, I think, is that employers expect the stuff to be taught in high school, before employees get there. I don't think the LMDAs should be trying to teach people some of these basic skills. We pay $50 billion a year into the educational system that's not turning people out.

I think it can be addressed but, frankly, I think the educational system itself is where it starts. It's not the LMDAs that are the problem here.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Very well.

We talked about apprenticeship. Young people who want to study technical trades can pursue their apprenticeship training on a rotating basis, in other words, work for a company while doing their training. Unfortunately, not all young people are interested in technical trades, so I think it's important to promote those occupations to young people.

What do you think?

[Catherine Pennington]

I couldn't agree more.

I think that promoting the technical and apprenticeship trades is critical. In fact, I have a team this week in northern B.C that's working with partners, the Industry Training Authority, union organizations, labour organizations, and colleges, on something called pathways to apprenticeship.

We're simply creating the space for dialogue. We're hosting these events. They're low budget, low glamour, no glitz. They are opportunities for dialogue around apprenticeships. We need to get people in Canadian cities, communities, small towns, rural and remote areas, seeing themselves in the picture of trades and technology. I think there are really simple and inexpensive ways to do that.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you, and thank you to both witnesses for being here.

Mr. Wilson, I attended that trip to Germany as well.

Referring back to your comments at the last round of questioning, are there any suggestions or recommendations you have to use LMDAs to help promote what I call the parity of esteem, to help make sure that young people in the country who are making educational decisions understand that there are great opportunities in the trades and in working with their hands, so we can grow the labour pool that companies like Enbridge and many of your supporters need?

[Mathew Wilson]

By the way, it's good to see you again.

Yes, there are some things you can do and I think some of the steps are there. Maybe it's just not being done in a nationally consistent format. Some of the stuff that Catherine was talking about in terms of their involvement in local communities, how do you take some of the best examples of that and replicate them across the country? These things don't have to be expensive, but they're so spotty.

I mentioned our experience in what we do in Manitoba. We run similar programs in the city of Calgary, but not province-wide across Alberta. We run some great stuff in Quebec, and then it's kind of spotty here and there after that. So maybe there is something that could be targeted more specifically at attracting youth into the system.

One of the things we learned in Germany was about national advertising and promotional awareness around some of the skilled trades and how important that was. We do a little of it through some of the advertising that HRSDC puts out, but again, it's fairly spotty and frankly, some of it's not very good.

It could be aimed more at youth instead of at mid-career people and there could be some things we could borrow from the German example of how they're doing it, and even in the U.K., of how they're going at it at a national level to promote those trades.

Those are just a couple of ideas and hopefully that works.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

You mentioned in your remarks the skills lab, you just kind of touched on it. I don't have much working knowledge of the day-to-day operations of that program. Could you expand on exactly how it operates?

[Mathew Wilson]

I am involved and I have a colleague with me who spends probably 50% of his time on it. We've actually just started and it's a kick-off. It was to be a private sector-led initiative around figuring out exactly what some of the problems are.

It operates as an online forum for companies to talk about what their specific skills challenges are, as well as either self-identified solutions to some of the challenges they face or coming up with new and innovative ways to address those problems, either as company-led solutions or through government programming and policy changes. It's a pretty open forum. The website is www.sl-lc.ca and there's a nice video of my boss, Jayson Myers, and Minister Kenney telling you why you should go on it and why it's good.

But it is early and it is a good thing just to talk about it in terms of getting ideas from employers of what can go on. The other thing that's important is actually the new and innovative way that government is trying to do consultations with industry on problems that are out there. It's an industry-led consultation and partnership with government, so it's an innovative way to look at problems.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Ms. Pennington, in the areas of great potential like northwest B.C., the opportunities they have over the next 15 years are just unbelievable. I guess there are two pools of labour. One is the local labour force that we need to provide training for and the LMDAs can be a piece of that puzzle. The other side is bringing the boys into northwest B.C. from other parts of the country who may already have those skills or have been in there, and training them with the same programs.

Do you have any suggestions or specific recommendations on how we can bridge that gap and have labour mobility, so people can actually get to these jobs?

[Catherine Pennington]

I go back to some form of subsidy or available funding to help people move across the country. Obviously, it has to be a reasonable amount. It can't be a huge investment. There is certainly a shared responsibility. Individuals need to have that mobility and they need to be able to make those first and second steps. But certainly I think helping people to relocate.

Clearly, there's been a lot of work done around apprenticeship and Red Seal. I know there are other discussions around additional labour market mobility tools that will help people move across the country. Again, helping people understand the opportunities that exist, and recognizing that in many communities in the north-northwest some of the challenges will be around housing and accommodations. I know the company I work for and many other companies are working with communities on this, so we certainly need to be creative and responsive.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you very much. Your time is up as well.

Thank you to both of you, Mr. Wilson and Ms. Pennington, for your presentations.

Now we will take a couple of minutes to switch panels.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

We'll resume our meeting.

I'll introduce our guests for this portion of our meeting: Nelson Leon, the chief of Adams Lake Indian Band; Karin Hunt from the Prince George Nechako Aboriginal Employment and Training Association; and from Métis Nation British Columbia, Colleen Hodgson.

I'll just remind you that you have seven minutes each and that timing is really tight. When we get to questions, I don't mean to be rude, but members get only five minutes. If I do interrupt you, forgive me, but I will signal you rather than use words. Thank you so much.

Nelson, let's start with you. Thank you.

[Chief Nelson Leon, Chief, Adams Lake Indian Band]

[Witness speaks in the Secwepemc language]

Good morning. I'm Nelson Leon, chief of Adams Lake Indian Band. I'd first like to acknowledge the Algonquin territory that I'm in.

Good morning guests, committee members, and witnesses. On behalf of the Shuswap Nation Tribal Council, signatory to the central interior aboriginal skills and employment training strategy, I am honoured to present to you today.

To provide you with a bit of a background, let me say that I am the chief of the Adams Lake Indian Band, a community located in Secwepemc territory near Chase, British Columbia. I am currently serving an eight-year term as elected chief. I've completed seven years as an elected councillor and I was previously employed as the administrator of the Shuswap training and employment program, a branch of the central interior aboriginal skills and employment training strategy. I oversaw and coordinated the administration of 10 first nation bands and additional urban programs within the Shuswap Nation. I was a part of the negotiations for pathways, of aboriginal human resources development agreements 1 and 2, and of the ASETS' renewal. I currently serve as the central interior ASETS' chief representative.

The purpose of my presentation is to provide members of Parliament with an update of the labour market development agreements from a local, provincial, and federal perspective, from the standpoint of an aboriginal skills and employment training strategy holder.

In British Columbia, there are 13 ASETS agreement holders. The ASETS holders have strong working relationships with the first nations, friendship centres, and tribal councils serving the first nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples.

In the central interior, the ASETS has provided EI unpaid benefits in the amount of $750,000 and non-EI social assistance recipient savings in the amount of $170,000 since 2011. The total allocation of funding for the central interior is $3.89 million per year.

Provincially, for the past fiscal year the ASETS served more than 10,000 clients and saw 3,600 clients enter the labour market. The resulting savings for the EI unpaid benefits was $3.1 million and for non-EI social savings $2.9 million. The 13 B.C. ASETS receive $49 million per year in funding. This allocation has not changed since 1969.

The labour market development agreements deserve review and analysis, especially as they pertain to B.C. LMDAs have been in place since 2010. The LMDA is now called the employment program of British Columbia, a one-stop shop that provides services to all unemployed people seeking work, including those on social assistance, disability, or employment insurance.

The EPBC services have been contracted out of WorkBC offices, which require a fee for service. Until recently, the WorkBC office was fully funded by the Ministry of Social Development and Social Innovation, but starting in June 2014 these offices will be required to charge a fee for service rather than receive 100% support from the provincial government. The only areas that will receive 100% funding are the fixed operating fees, which include rent, computers, and wages for site coordinators and administrative staff. Other positions in the employment services, such as those of case managers, job developers, employment advisers, facilitators, and financial specialists, are factored into the billable hours.

The financial model targets the cost of delivery per client. The goal, much as for ASETS, is to assist the clients to achieve employment. However, the difference is in the attachment of the billable rate of training costs. The WorkBC funding limit per client is $7,500. In most cases, ASETS co-funds clients, since this amount is insufficient to support the client training needs. The ASETS flexibility allows for partnerships to occur in WorkBC offices. There is an identified need for additional funds to support urban aboriginals to enhance existing programs and support an identified need and reduction of duplication of already-existing programs.

ASETS participation in the WorkBC offices has improved the accuracy of data regarding the number of aboriginal clients. The lack of reliable data of aboriginal clients utilizing the WorkBC offices is an issue in B.C.

As identified in the B.C. labour market strategy to 2020, over one million job openings are expected in B.C. over the next 16 years. Close to 60% of the job openings—or 650,000—will be due to replacement demands as a result of retiring workers. One third, or 350,000, will be due to new jobs from economic growth. Demand for jobs in B.C. is expected to grow by an average of 1.4% over the next 10 years.

The B.C. labour market is expected to rely increasingly on migrants. The labour market will be requiring new migrants for the new labour market supply over the period of 2014 to 2020. New migrants are expected to fill one third of the job openings. Over 77% of all jobs will require post-secondary education.

Almost half the aboriginal population—46%—is under the age of 25, compared to 30% for the non-aboriginal population. This is expected to see a decline in British Columbia to less than 10% by 2020. In addition, 60% of the aboriginal people have grade 12 or less, whereas 68% of B.C.'s general population has some post-secondary education or a degree.

On the national perspective, I also want to speak on behalf of our national ASETS network, since many of our ASETS holders also have concerns about the lack of provincial cooperation in sharing the LMDA funds. Nationally, there are 58 first nations ASETS holders serving a total population of approximately 930,000. To put this in perspective, there are more first nations citizens than the population of greater Ottawa.

Local ASETS holders have been serving first nations citizens since 1991. ASETS holders are in the best position to both understand and serve the unique job market needs, whether it be mining, transportation, energy, forestry, or tourism. Since 1996, ASETS holders have not seen any funding increases, despite a growing population and a growing client demand. As it stands right now, the cost of doing nothing will result in a growing annual multi-billion dollar burden in terms of dealing with the social impacts of poverty and despair.

First nations need immediate investment in order to reach employment parity with the rest of Canada. By doing so, it is estimated that by 2026 first nations will contribute a further $4 billion to Canada's economy, while saving at least $115 billion in costs associated with poverty. For the past—

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Could you could round off now, please?

[Chief Nelson Leon]

Okay.

In closing, the simple recommendation I want to put forward is that any future LMA, LMDA, or Canada job grant must have a specific amount earmarked for first nations ASETS holders. The price of adequate funding will be paid back in building a dynamic future for first nations people of our land and all Canadians. With the proper investment and support by the federal government, we can meet our mutual goals, and we can build stronger communities and a stronger Canada.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you so much.

I'm going to go to Ms. Hunt, please.

[Karin Hunt, Executive Director, Prince George Nechako Aboriginal Employment and Training Association]

Thank you.

Good morning.

I want to acknowledge the Algonquin people, whose traditional territory I'm in today. Also, it's a pleasure and a privilege to address the standing committee in order to provide an aboriginal response to the labour market development agreements.

The organization I work for is located in the northern interior of British Columbia. We are an ASETS agreement holder, funded by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada.

It was very interesting to me this morning to hear the talk about essential skills. We are the pioneers for first nations people in western Canada of essential skills development for industry. As such, the success we enjoy today is due in part to the work we've been doing with industry to develop workplace literacy for their needs, particularly the skills gaps.

We have signed 16 recruitment and retention agreements with industry and trades unions. In the four years of a five-year agreement, it has resulted in 2,708 job placements, in excess of $800,000 in savings to the EI fund, in excess of $2 million in savings to the federal and provincial social income fund, and an estimated $30 million in wages invested into the economy. All at a cost efficiency of about $3,780 per participant.

Initially, we started essential skills to get people ready for trades. Our folks did not have their grade 12, which was required, so we needed to find a measure to catapult them into trades without the length of time required to get their grade 12. Essential skills did that in part—240 people, as a matter of fact.

What's most interesting is that we were getting people ready for college trades foundation programs. The trend that has occurred since then is that the unions are scooping them out of our classrooms before they can get to college. Once they do the essential skills, which is workplace-based literacy.... It is transcending the cultural divide between where the individuals are and what they need to understand about that sector and that industry, and all the competencies that are required. Once they've transcended that divide, the unions want them at once. That has been the biggest trend.

I would be pleased to reappear before the committee to do a presentation for you on workplace-based essential skills, but today I'm here to talk about the standing committee, so I want to move along really quickly. I am part of 14 ASETS agreement holders in B.C. Together, we have provided services to approximately 12,000 employment insurance recipients over the past four years.

In terms of the labour market development agreement in B.C., the scope is to enhance the skill levels to ensure access to employment and labour market programs, and to partner with employers and communities. That scope mirrors the intent and purpose of the aboriginal skills and employment training agreements. Theoretically and logically, it should have presented an opportunity for collaborative approaches and shared resources.

In response, the employment program of B.C. was launched. It was to improve flexibility, improve responsiveness, and improve accessibility for clients and the public. It was intended to make it easier for people to find work and provide stability for their families through a wide range of employment programs within an integrated approach.

All EI programs through the LMDA were integrated into the employment program of B.C. They mirrored the programs offered by the ASETS agreement holders, such as training to upgrade skills, work experience initiatives, wage subsidies, encouraging employers to provide work experience opportunities, and job creation, amongst others. The anticipated collaboration did not occur, with the exception of a few situations, that were peripheral at best.

This implementation was carried out through one-stop WorkBC employment services centres, which included delivery to aboriginal citizens. The intention, once again, was quick and easy access to assist the unemployed to get back into the workforce as quickly as possible. The reality was longer wait times, disgruntled clients, unwieldy processes, and in several circumstances culturally inappropriate application.

Presumably, a stakeholder analysis was conducted post-implementation; however, it is apparent this did not extend to a sensitivity analysis, which would have extracted data on the service delivery models with proven history and impact in aboriginal labour force development, and in particular, the rationale behind why we had designed models the way we did in meeting the cultural and philosophical needs of the aboriginal community. With the new model that was put in place, the RFP process ostracized several aboriginal organizations with expertise in employment services. Their valuable expertise was relegated to non-existence, and integral resources were lost to the community.

In many communities across B.C., aboriginal citizens are now subjected to a former, “olden days” model of services delivered by non-aboriginal organizations going back in time. In instances where WorkBC employment centre agreements are managed by private companies, a fee-for-service model is not only a philosophical difference in approach, it extends the lead time for processing citizens toward skills development and ultimately gainful employment. This is due to the requirement for clients to participate in a series of workshops to count costing factors.

In terms of collaborative approaches, the WorkBC employment centres and the ASETS agreement holders serve the same clientele, deliver the same programs and services, and in most cases, have similar goals, objectives, and proposed outcomes. For example, the ASETS agreement holders historically fund upward of 3,000 employment insurance clients on an annual basis. That's in B.C., of course. Strategically, resources can be maximized, better outcomes realized, and efficiency increased if collaboration were to occur. So the key, really, is collaboration, a coming together between the provincial LMDA, the ASETS agreement holders, and finding strategic approaches and models that are going to work. It's just, perhaps, doing things differently than we have done in the past.

So, here are the recommendations to the standing committee.

The first is to invest in aboriginal organizations with expertise in essential skills—that was after this morning's discussion where folks were going on about it, and I thought, we have the perfect answer. We started out through the national AFN and CN Rail, and we implemented the railway to success program. Since then we have run that program three times for CN Rail. But, you see, the model includes CN Rail, so they hire the majority of the graduates and then send them on to further training. We had a number of folks go on to training as conductors, and all of that was paid for by CN Rail. So, those models exist. There were never any essential skills resources that were provided to the ASETS holders.

The other is to encourage the LMDA agreement holders to engage in a stakeholder sensitivity analysis with ASETS agreement holders in B.C.

A third is to encourage labour market development holders to engage in meaningful dialogue in partnership with the ASETS, to maximize resources for greater impact.

A fourth is to analyze the existence or non-existence of collaborative efforts between WorkBC centres and ASETS agreements holders, sharing best practices and lessons learned.

The fifth is to encourage federal departments and LMDA agreement holders to partner and invest further with ASETS agreement holders in the design and implementation of impactful programs for the aboriginal labour force to meet the demand for entry into apprenticeship, technology, and health programs.

The recommendations presented, though not exhaustive, underpin a forward approach for collaboration to create solutions to the specific issues, problems, or opportunities. Meaningful dialogue will then provide a venue for the stakeholders to examine the many facets of a complex situation, design specific solutions, and determine how best to implement them.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you very much. Now we're going to move over to the members of Parliament and their questioning.

Oh, I am so sorry. We haven't heard from the third panellist.

Ms. Hodgson.

[Colleen Hodgson, Director, Industry Engagement, Partnerships and Education, Métis Nation British Columbia]

Thank you.

Good morning, and thank you so much, Chair, for the invitation to participate today and share some information.

My name is Colleen Hodgson and I am from Métis Nation B.C. I'm the director of industry engagement, partnerships, and education. As we know, Métis Nation British Columbia is one of the five governing bodies of the Métis National Council, which is like the AFN of the first nations, just for some background there.

I am Métis. My family originates from Hodgson, Manitoba. That's actually my community, or was my community; I live in beautiful British Columbia.

I would like to begin my comments by providing some context about my role with MNBC and how I am involved with post-secondary education and funding and the labour market. You'll see, as I share this with you, why that context is important.

Over the past several years I have been involved in the development of the aboriginal post-secondary education and training framework,which was a policy piece; the aboriginal service plans, which we started about five years ago; the Aboriginal post-secondary education policy table, which drives the policy and ultimately the legislation in British Columbia on aboriginal post-secondary education and training; and the northern B.C. regional workforce tables that the Government of B.C. implemented about two years ago. They started at northern B.C., so Prince George is the cut-off. The regional workforce tables were put in place to gather that information, that data, for implementation of skills training plans, knowing what was coming with industry.

I also worked on the natural gas workforce strategy with the government and actually a few of the folks from industry. It's interesting, a lot of government people seem to go over to industry, and industry people go over to government. I think that's a good thing; it makes a lot of knowledge at the table.

I've also worked with ASETS. I manage the partnership component of our ASETS program. We are an ASETS provider, which is actually not regional or local. It's provincial. We provide ASETS services to about 70,000 Métis people in British Columbia. I've also been involved in the SPF that came out, the ASTSIF, the ATEP, and the aboriginal community partnership program, which we like to call “the alphabet soup” one. That's from the LMDA and LMA funding, so this is what the Province of B.C. did with it.

Then I worked directly with the private sector and the public post-secondary institutions on skills training and employment, and as Ms. Hunt spoke about CN, I've worked with them as well. So there are lots of relationships there, and I'm sure it's taken 10 years off my life, as with my colleagues here.

I will speak to the “Federal Framework for Aboriginal Economic Development”, as I think it's a great guiding document. As you know, Minister Strahl, back in B.C. now, is from my community in the Fraser Valley in British Columbia, and he's been very involved with Métis and first nations in policy development and very supportive. I think that document is a good one. I've had many discussions with him about it.

I think it's a great set of guidelines, because it has the big picture. It connects economic development to skills training. We need to do that. I've seen often through many years that skills training is separate from economic development. They're not separate; they're one thing. When we connect economic development for a first nation or Métis community, that means jobs, that means training, that means those folks' going to work. So we have to look at it as one picture. I think that's a much more pragmatic way to look at things.

The framework states that the Government of Canada will support labour market programming that increases skills development and employability to help aboriginal people secure long-term jobs; foster linkages across initiatives supporting labour market participation, skills development, apprenticeship and training, as well as education and income assistance—so again, the income assistance and the EI piece is in there—and collaborate with industry, educators, and the voluntary sector to better match learning and training with job opportunities in the labour market.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Excuse me, I know we asked you to go rather quickly, but our translators, interpreters, asked—

[Colleen Hodgson]

It's the educator in me.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

I know you want to get everything in there. If you could just slow down a little bit, that will give our interpreters a chance. We've stopped the clock while we're having this conversation.

[Colleen Hodgson]

Okay, that's great. Thank you for that.

The framework that was developed is a great document. It outlines all of the things we talk about, and I think we've all had many conversations about this. We know it well, but we need to determine what the next steps are.

Ms. Hunt spoke about including literacy in essential skills. That's very important. Supporting labour market programming and delivering this can be effective if we know who we need to train and what kind of training is needed. I honestly don't believe there is a labour shortage in British Columbia. I believe there is a skills shortage.

Fostering partnerships and building relationships has to include several partners, including the first nations and Métis communities, government, the private sector, employers, and post-secondary institutions, both public and private. We have private institution training on operating heavy equipment and it's great, but we also have public institutions that are great in delivering training on heavy equipment operating as well.

In order to make informed decisions when accessing labour market funding and developing partnerships that support skills training, we need to know who we need to train. We need to understand, at the community level, what the training needs are. We need to make these decisions using accurate data.

The two most important data sets I've come to recognize are current and accurate labour market data and socio-economic data. Because we approach this from a socio-economic perspective, we need to have that data. We can't implement labour market data without a socio-economic analysis of Métis people in B.C.

Many data sets are collected by Canada and by British Columbia, and they are often shared. The data sets include the labour force survey, aboriginal peoples survey, various reports from Statistics Canada and B.C. Stats, ministries such as the Ministry of Social Development and Social Innovation, and the Ministry of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training, which have already been mentioned.

Some data sets are pan-aboriginal. Some specify first nations, Métis, and Inuit, while others identify first nations and Métis. The aboriginal peoples survey distinguishes between first nations, Métis, and Inuit, while the employment program of B.C., which has the LMDA funding, identifies aboriginal as a specialized population on a pan-aboriginal percentage basis. They identify it not as aboriginal or first nations or Métis but as “specialized”, which is critical when any kind of funding is implemented.

Data collection that informs programs and services delivered both by Canada and by the provinces should be consistent. I think we've all heard that message. An important data set that does not currently exist in B.C. is the socio-economic status of Métis people. An example is the need for accurate information on people accessing social assistance and employment insurance.