Human Resources Committee on Nov. 27th, 2014

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

One of the biggest differences I saw as an educator was the amount of resources the employers themselves were putting into the system.

Do you want to quantify some of that and explain the difference between what Canadian employers are—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

In Germany, to give you a concrete example, employers collectively spend 38 billion euros, over $50 billion Canadian, a year on apprenticeship programs alone. We asked every employer if they were concerned about poaching. That's why a lot of Canadian employers don't go to apprenticeship programs. They said it's not an issue as they all have a sense of responsibility. If they have the scale, like the mittelstand, medium-size businesses, or the big employers, they do it. They have a sense of social obligation.

We are concerned. According to the OECD, Canadian governments are at the top of the developed world in investing in skills development but Canadian private sector employers are toward the bottom of the developed world in these investments. According to the Conference Board, private sector investments in skills development declined by 40% in real inflation-adjusted terms between 1990 and 2010. This concerns me, which is why we are encouraging employers...if they're going to come to us demanding more temporary foreign workers, I'm going to continue to ask them what they are investing in training programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Minister.

That ends our first round of questioning.

We now move on to our five-minute rounds. We begin with Madame Groguhé.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentation, Mr. Minister.

In the beginning of your presentation, you talked about the Social Security Tribunal of Canada (SST). That is what my questions are about.

There is a lot of concern about the backlog. Murielle Brazeau, the chair of the SST, has shared with us various findings, particularly in terms of staffing. She told us that 21 new members would be joining the teams to help them clear up the backlog. You are saying that you want to act quickly, but she says that it will take five years to clear the backlog. In addition, the new members will only start their positions in March. Is that not another reason for concern?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you for the question, madam.

I am pleased to inform you that, after a meeting this morning, we have appointed 22 part-time members to the SST. Almost all those members worked with the former Pension Appeals Board. As a result, they do not require as much training, which clearly takes a few months.

In addition, we have transferred 12 decision-makers at the SST from the employment insurance division to the income security division, because of the drop in the number of appeals filed by people whose EI claims were rejected during the internal review process of EI files.

So there are 33 additional decision-makers for the Canada pension plan. I asked the chair of the SST to tell me what she plans to do to clear up the backlog. To do so, she has hired a company to develop a productivity model. Additional decision-makers might need to be hired then.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay.

Ms. Brazeau also told us that there are no performance measurements in place right now. You said that you wanted to go ahead and quickly implement performance measurements, which are essential.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, absolutely.

The chair of the SST told me that, on average, decision-makers process 2.5 cases per week. I don't know whether that is acceptable or not. She has hired a company to analyze the work of the decision-makers and establish a productivity model. We will then be able to know how many decision-makers will be needed to tackle the backlog and provide a good level of service.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Very well.

What is your objective in this matter? When do you think the situation will be corrected? How much time are you giving yourself to get there?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm sorry, madam, but I have no idea what the date is because I am waiting for the opinion of the chair of the SST, who will rely on the productivity model. She said that she was going to receive the consultants' report this fall and then tell me what she intends to do to clear the backlog.

We are adding resources to the SST and I am open to the idea of adding even more.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

Mr. Mayes, for five minutes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

I want to talk a little bit about the targeted initiative for older workers. The sectors in the economy are changing, and as they change, of course jobs are lost. I was talking to a fellow in the steel industry. He told me that to produce one tonne of steel only takes 1.8 man-hours. It's unbelievable.

There are a lot of older workers who have to be retrained. You have budgeted $75 million over three years for renewal and expansion of this target initiative for older workers. I just wonder if that expansion would help the criteria for community eligibility also. Will more communities be able to participate in this program?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, the targeted initiative for older workers is a transfer that we give to provincial and territorial governments to focus on training programs for folks over the age of 50 who have lost their jobs, typically in older, traditional industries, to try to get them relevant training for new jobs. We spend $25 million a year on this currently. We have worked with the provinces to renew the agreements recently.

I'm not familiar.... Can someone in my department answer? Have we expanded the eligibility criteria?

We'll get back to you on that.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay.

I'll move to Pathways to Education. There is an assessment of how that funding is working and how the program is working. There was an evaluation made. I'm just wondering what the results are from that evaluation of Pathways to Education.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Well, Pathways to Education was a statutory grant announced, I think, in budget 2008. It's an excellent organization. It started in Toronto and is a fantastic model of working with disadvantaged youth. They started originally, I think, in Regent Park, a really tough area in Toronto. They had phenomenal outcomes there, in terms of high school completion and youth going on to post-secondary education.

I believe there has been a preliminary evaluation done, which has been quite positive.

A statutory grant, Mr. Mayes, is designed to allow Pathways to expand their programming to other cities. They've gone to a number of other centres across Canada. My understanding is the preliminary evaluation is quite positive. We are looking at whether or not to renew the statutory grant.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'm going to another topic now, to Ready, Willing and Able, and CommunityWorks, initiatives for people with disabilities.

Has there been a good buy-in by employers? We've announced $15 million over three years. Do you feel that the employers are going to support this? For it to work, that's what has to happen. I just wonder if you're getting any feedback from employers on their willingness to participate in this program.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Again, your chairman is something of an expert on this particular question.

We're working with an organization, the Canadian Association for Community Living, which has an awful lot of experience in connecting persons with developmental disabilities to jobs, which is why we felt confident in this additional $15-million investment over three years, again through a statutory grant that you find before you in these supplementary estimates.

Yes, I think the experience is very positive.

Let's be blunt. Employers continue to complain increasingly about skills and labour shortages in a growing number of regions and industries of the country. One reason we tightened up the temporary foreign worker program was to say to them that before they look abroad to fill their labour needs, they should look in their own communities at unemployed youth, recent immigrants, aboriginal folks in their region, and at persons with physical and mental disabilities.

There are a lot of great community organizations that are represented by the Canadian Association for Community Living who have years of experience in this. This is a little bit of a boost to them.

My point is that more and more employers realize that if they want to find workers, they have no choice but to make the accommodations necessary to help locally disabled folks get into the workforce. The anecdotal evidence is very strong that more employers are getting involved in this.

There are some real models out there. There are some local franchises, a majority of whose workforce in the service industry is made up of folks with developmental disabilities. These are typically people who bring a wonderfully uncynical attitude to work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you for that.

Madam Sims, for five minutes.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I want to thank the minister for extending his stay with us, because I know how much he enjoys being here as well.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

You can't get rid of me. I'm like a bad cold.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Anyway, the report on plans and priorities earlier this year showed a cut, or at least a planned cut, of 56 full-time employees in the integrity division of Service Canada. How many full-time employees are now working on enforcing and monitoring the temporary foreign worker program? How many new investigations has your government conducted on the temporary foreign worker program since June 26? How many names have been added to the employer blacklist and how many investigations of workplaces have taken place?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I will just intervene here briefly, Minister, before you answer that question.

The first question you had, Madam Sims, had multiple layers of data that you requested. I understand your desire to get that data. I just don't think this is the forum at this meeting to put officials and/or others scrambling for data that perhaps if they'd had some prior notice about having the need to bring it, they would have brought. So, perhaps through me, if you don't mind, you could pose those questions. I would like to get your notes or your written requests, which I could submit to the minister or you could submit them directly and then back through me. I just think today is not for requesting data like this time after time. So please move on to another question.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Absolutely. Thank you.

Just to clarify, Minister, I will submit these written questions, because I'm sure you may not have been able to write them down as quickly as I said them.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Honestly, I'm happy to come in and answer if you give us a heads up. But if this is gotcha, has the minister memorized every stat in his department, you're always going to win.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Minister, let me assure you, it wasn't a gotcha moment. I could think of far better gotcha moments. This is just an interest in finding out what's happening.

Getting on to the EI issue, Minister, one of the things that happens in my office, and I'm hearing this from a number of MPs, is a lot of constituents are saying that when they call about EI, CPP, OAS claims, they hear a message about high volumes. Are you aware of how many people are calling the client satisfaction office to register complaints? Once again, if you don't have that number, we can get that at a subsequent meeting.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm told by officials we don't have the number, but obviously there are a lot of dissatisfied clients who can't get someone on the phone in a reasonable amount of time and I am concerned about that. We are reviewing the Service Canada call centre to see.... I'm told that response times are improving and that it's headed in the right direction, but not as fast as I would like and I'm looking at what else we can do to improve this. I'll just stop there and talk to you offline about some ideas I have.