Evidence of meeting #23 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was child.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrew Griffith  Director General, Citizenship and Multiculturalism Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Rick Stewart  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Nicole Girard  Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship and Multiculturalism Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

9:20 a.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

Yes, but adopted children born abroad will be treated differently depending on how they got their citizenship. That is what you confirmed earlier.

9:20 a.m.

Director General, Citizenship and Multiculturalism Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

9:20 a.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

I would like to know whether this is simply an oversight in the legislation. When we passed Bill C-37, did we realize that under the legislation, naturalized individuals, including some of the children adopted abroad, could pass on their citizenship, even outside the country, but was it forgotten that children adopted abroad obtained their citizenship directly? Is the problem simply that no provision was made for these cases, that it is just a silly mistake, or is there a reason why children born abroad and adopted according to the conventional procedure can pass on their citizenship abroad, while children who obtain their citizenship directly cannot do so?

9:25 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

In Canada, the situation of individuals who were naturalized is the same as that of individuals born in Canada, whereas the situation of individuals who received a direct grant of citizenship abroad, in the case of an adoption, is entirely equivalent to that of Canadians born abroad.

The objective of Bill C-14 was to provide equivalency for individuals born abroad. Bill C-37 subsequently changed the rules, the requirements for the first generations.

9:25 a.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

I understand what you're saying, Mr. Stewart. You are talking about the legal consequences, but I want to know the underlying reasons. Reference has been made to an attachment criterion. But I have trouble seeing how this criterion, in the case of children adopted by Canadian parents who come to live in Canada, is connected to the procedure whereby these children got their citizenship. I understand the legal consequences and the two equivalent situations, but I am wondering what the reason for this is.

9:25 a.m.

Nicole Girard Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship and Multiculturalism Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

As Mr. Stewart and Mr. Griffith said, we are talking here about children born abroad to Canadian parents and children adopted abroad by Canadians. The objective is simply to treat the two groups fairly with respect to passing on Canadian citizenship.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Merci.

I have a brief question, something that Mr. Bevilacqua was asking, and you responded with the term “the assessment of hardship”. I assume that it's left vague purposely to give discretion; however, the very fact that we're asking these questions.... Are there guidelines? Are there guidelines anywhere on this issue?

9:25 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

There is a vagueness to the discretionary provision in order to allow flexibility to deal with whatever cases come forth.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Of course.

9:25 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

To the extent that they're guidelines, we are guided by three basic parameters and an overriding principle.

The first one is that the individual lives in Canada or has lived in Canada for most of their life.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Is this written down somewhere in a guideline or is this just an understanding?

9:25 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

It's written down in guidelines that we give to our assessment officers, our citizenship officers, to those who are making these decisions.

So do they live here now? Have they lived here most of their life? Have they had a reasonable but mistaken belief that they are Canadian or that they were Canadian, in fact? It's the border babies example.

Then the overriding principle that guides the assessment is the issue of undue hardship. Does it pose an undue hardship for the individual to seek citizenship through the permanent residency and regular grant-of-citizenship process?

Those are the four elements we use. We try to use that to the best of our discretion and in the fairest way possible, on the basis of looking at cases we've seen previously in making a recommendation, positively or negatively, on a case.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

So you're not recommending any change to this process. You believe that the discretionary issue should be left as is.

9:30 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

We're not recommending changes at this time.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you, sir.

Ms. Chow.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Out of 100 cases, what is your percentage of approval?

9:30 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

What kinds of cases?

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Where you would grant subsection 5(4)--what we've been talking about.

9:30 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

Unfortunately, I don't have that with me. I'm sorry.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Ballpark? General?

9:30 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

I would prefer not to make a guess.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

When can you provide that information?

9:30 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

I can follow up and provide the information back to this committee.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

You would have some rough idea, because we know how many have been granted.

9:30 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Rick Stewart

We know how many have been granted.