Evidence of meeting #32 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was long.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jennifer Pollock  Law Student, Caseworker, Immigration and Refugee Law Division, Parkdale Community Legal Services
Elizabeth Long  Barrister and Solicitor, Partner, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I'll call the meeting to order, please.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is the 32nd meeting of Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, on Tuesday, November 3, 2009. The orders of the day are pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), a study of immigration application process wait times.

Could I have some order, please?

Before we start the meeting, I'm going to read a letter that was sent to me. Copies were sent to Mr. Bevilacqua, Monsieur St-Cyr, and Ms. Chow, but I have no idea whether other members are aware of it, so I am going to read it for the committee. The letter is addressed to me. It is dated October 29 and states:

Dear Chairman Tilson, Earlier today, during a meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, Liberal MP Jim Karygiannis accused a longtime public servant in my ministry of wanting to stop the immigration of black people. While questioning Claudette Deschenes, ADM (Operations) in Citizenship and Immigration Canada, about why processing times vary across different visa offices abroad, Mr. Karygiannis said: “What happened in Kingston, Jamaica? I'll tell you what happened. They're black and you don't want to let them in.” This is slander. And it is an unconscionable attack on the integrity of the dedicated members of our professional public service. Immigration officials in Canada's missions abroad work very hard—often under trying circumstances—to process immigration applications. However, very often situations beyond our control arise that make processing immigration applications in a particular country more difficult. When officials in my ministry appear before the Standing Committee to answer questions from committee members on the policies and operations of the Department, they are entitled to be treated with respect. There is no excuse for committee members to harass, abuse, or defame public servants. If Mr. Karygiannis continues his pattern of abusing officials from my ministry when they appear before the Standing Committee, I will direct them not to appear before the committee in the future.

That's the part that concerns me most. It continues:

I urge you and committee members to censure Mr. Karygiannis for his unacceptable conduct, and to ensure appropriate respect for Canada's public servants. Yours sincerely, The Honourable Jason Kenney, PC, MP Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism

As I indicated, copies were sent to the Honourable Maurizio Bevilacqua, Thierry St-Cyr, and Olivia Chow.

So I've read that into the record.

Mr. Dykstra.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Chair, following the letter the minister sent to a number of us and that you've just read into the record, I do want to comment on last Thursday, and I am going to be putting forward a motion.

Last Thursday at this committee, we were treated to an unpleasant spectacle. During a discussion of immigration wait times at various overseas Canadian missions, the member for Scarborough—Agincourt shamefully attacked a long-time public servant. He made a shocking accusation to her, and I quote verbatim: “They're black and you don't want them in”. He said this in reference to immigration applicants processed in places like Nairobi, Accra, Port-au-Prince, Haiti, and Kingston, Jamaica. He later tried to partially climb down, claiming that he was referring to Africa. However, as any map will tell you, Haiti and Jamaica are not in Africa.

This forms part of the pattern of behaviour of the member for Scarborough—Agincourt, a pattern of disrespect toward witnesses, other members of the committee, and even the chair. This pattern contrasts sharply with the respectful and cooperative tone of every other member of our committee, who, when they have a disagreement, conduct themselves civilly and as honourable members should.

Allegations of racial bias are even more incendiary at this committee and should be taken most seriously. We owe it to Canadians, new and not so new, to keep a respectful and moderate tone when discussing our immigration system. So I would respectfully call on the member to apologize without reservation to the witness, the committee, and to the House.

In this regard, I will provide notice and move the following motion: That the member for Scarborough—Agincourt be reported to the House for disorder in relation to his unparliamentary outburst of Thursday, October 29, 2009.

9:05 a.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

I have not received a copy of Mr. Dykstra's motion which, according to committee rules, requires a notice of motion. Since this matter will have to be addressed when Mr. Dykstra's motion is tabled to the committee, I do not see why we should continue discussing it as this time. We are eating into the time set aside today for our witnesses.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Dykstra, I agree. We need to have 48 hours' notice. I don't know. What's your...unless there's some sort of consent.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

I would ask for consent that we deal with this motion immediately; otherwise, we will deal with it on Thursday.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

That would have to be unanimous consent, Mr. Dykstra.

Mr. Dykstra has given us a notice of motion. He wishes to deal with it now. To deal with it now as opposed to 48 hours from now would require unanimous consent. Do we have consent to deal with Mr. Dykstra's motion now?

On a point of order, Mr. Karygiannis.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I'd like to know if the motion is in the proper form, if something like this could be brought to this committee. This is not a motion for the committee to deal with; this is a motion that Mr. Dykstra wants to bring against me. I did deal in a proper fashion with the witnesses. I communicated with them as well as I communicated here. I don't know why we are prolonging this. I'm just wondering if there is an underlying motive here by Mr. Dykstra against me. I'm not sure if this is something that's a proper motion that this committee can deal with.

You, Chair, being there in order to protect not only my rights and my privileges but those of every member of this committee, I don't think that you can deal with something like this. There are rules and regulations and I'm not sure if these are—

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Excuse me, sir. I didn't hear your last comment.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I said that I'm not sure if this is part of the rules. Are we setting a new pattern here?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

As I understand it, Mr. Karygiannis, this committee has every right to report to the House an apparent breach of privilege. Do we have the motion here?

9:05 a.m.

A voice

I haven't seen it, sir.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I haven't seen the wording of the motion. At this point, it's a notice of motion. I suppose that when I see the motion.... At this point, it's a notice of motion. When the motion is on the floor, at that time it would be appropriate for me to rule whether it's in order or not in order. At this point, I haven't seen the motion. At this point all we're doing is asking for unanimous consent as to whether we're going to waive the 48-hour rule.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Chair, on the same point of order, I'm not sure if you can accept such a motion as it infringes on my privileges.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

At this point it's a notice of motion, Mr. Karygiannis. It's not a motion.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

When you do receive it, Chair, I would recommend that you speak to the Clerk of the House to find out if it's appropriate.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I am going to rule that at this point it's a notice of motion, it's in order, and I'm asking whether or not there is unanimous consent for that motion to be dealt with now as opposed to 48 hours from now.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

No.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We do not have unanimous consent, Mr. Dykstra.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Chair, on a question of privilege?

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Perhaps, Mr. Dykstra, it would be helpful if a copy of that could be sent to the clerk for distribution , in French and English.

On a point of privilege, Mr. Karygiannis.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I would ask you to check with the Clerk as well as the Speaker to see if this motion is in proper fashion and if we can receive it.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Well, when I see it, Mr.—

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Before you receive it, sir.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

All right.

We're going to carry on with the meeting.

Good morning, ladies. Welcome to the committee. It's interesting here, isn't it?

I appreciate your coming this morning. On behalf of the committee, I welcome you.

We have two witnesses. You each have up to 10 minutes to make a presentation. We have Jennifer Pollock, who is a law student caseworker, immigration and refugee law division, with Parkdale Community Legal Services. As an individual, we have Elizabeth Long, who is a barrister and solicitor and partner with Long Mangalji.

I'm going to ask Ms. Pollock to make a presentation to the committee.

Welcome.

9:10 a.m.

Jennifer Pollock Law Student, Caseworker, Immigration and Refugee Law Division, Parkdale Community Legal Services

Thank you so much.

Good morning, Chair, Vice-Chairs, and members of the committee on citizenship and immigration. I consider it a great honour to be here with you today to speak on such a very important matter.

I would like to begin today by sharing a question that is on the minds of many Canadian families who are wishing absent family members were here in Canada as we speak. How long is too long? How long must Canadian families wait before they can be reunited with loved ones abroad? When can we begin breaking down immigration barriers in our system in order to bring Canadian families together? If this were your family, how long would be too long?

As a law student in immigration and refugee law at Parkdale Community Legal Services, also known as PCLS, I have seen that many families have already waited far too long. PCLS has worked for nearly 40 years in the low-income community of Parkdale in Toronto, providing legal services and carrying out community-driven law reform, education, and outreach. Historically, many residents of Parkdale are new immigrants and refugees, making immigration and refugee law a major area of work. Our goal is to ensure the voices of new immigrants and refugees are heard and that the issues affecting this vulnerable sector of our community are understood.

I would like to focus on just two--there are many--of the barriers to family reunification: first, the high rejection rates and long processing times for family class sponsorship applications at Canadian visa offices abroad and, second, the long delays and lack of appeal for refugees and persons in need of protection who apply to reunite with their family members in Canada.

These two barriers to family reunification speak to the pressing need to ensure our system lives up to Canada’s international legal obligations and embodies the broader objectives of the IRPA. As a state party to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, Canada has undertaken to progressively realize the widest possible protection and assistance to the family. Canada is also a signatory to the 1967 United Nations Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, which states that state parties should ensure that the unity of the refugee’s family is maintained.

At PCLS we have grave concerns about the exceedingly long delays--sometimes up to nine or ten years--facing families waiting to be reunited in Canada. It is time for us to generate the political will necessary to meet our international obligations and make this important goal a reality.

How long is too long for families to be reunited? When one in five cases of spousal sponsorship takes more than 20 months to process at the Accra visa office in Ghana, or more than 25 months to process at the Nairobi office in Kenya, we at PCLS believe that many family members have waited far too long already.

When the family member abroad is a parent or grandparent, those numbers grow. One in five families at the Accra office is asked to wait more than a staggering 52 months. With only four sub-Saharan visa offices processing permanent resident applications, it is little wonder that Canadians with African family members are forced to wait so long.

However, not only is the wait exceedingly long, but the rate of rejection is also alarmingly high. Of the four sub-Saharan visa offices, two--Accra and Nairobi--have spousal sponsorship rejection rates among the top five, at 46% and 27% respectively. In contrast, I'll ask you to think about the rate of rejection at São Paulo, which is just 4%. What accounts for this elevenfold discrepancy? Is the reunification of some families, based on country of origin, not as urgent for the Canadian government?

The Canadian Council for Refugees has recently released a report decrying the inequitable delays at the Nairobi office. Beyond the delays, we at PCLS have also become increasing concerned with the reasons given for some of these spousal sponsorship refusals. I'm going to tell you a story about one of our clients. I'm going to call her Ms. X.

Ms. X is a Tibetan woman whose family fled from Tibet. She is residing in India as a stateless person. She came to Canada through the live-in caregiver program. After fulfilling all of the extremely onerous requirements of that class, she became a permanent resident and is now a proud Canadian citizen.

She applied to sponsor her husband earlier this year. They celebrated their wedding in India, with family members providing pictures of their ceremony, which show both bride and groom receiving beautiful kata scarves from family members, symbolic of blessings wished for the future. However, during their interview with the New Delhi visa office, Ms. X's husband was questioned by the officer about why his wife had waited until “such a late age of 36 to get married”. The officer further states:

You and your sponsor are incompatible in terms of age. Whereas an age difference of 5 - 7 years in favour of the male is considered an acceptable norm in your community, your sponsor (female) is 9 years older than you.

Is this reliance on compatibility appropriate to determine the bona fides of a relationship? We at PCLS feel that it's rife for a misapplication by visa officers especially where essentialized cultural norms such as these are used to establish that a spousal sponsorship is not genuine. Who determines the cultural values of a diverse community? Where else in Canadian society would we accept the determination that a relationship must be fraudulent because a wife is older than her husband? Luckily, Ms. X has access to the immigration appeal division, where the visa officer's decision may be overturned.

In a 2002 report, Leslie Macleod determined that approximately 40% of spousal sponsorship ADR mediations resulted in the appeal being allowed. This does not cover the appeals that were successful at the immigration appeal division. This means that of the thousands of spousal sponsorship applications that were denied, many based on the bona fides of the relationship, nearly 40% of these should have been resolved at the visa office abroad.

The cost of these unnecessary appeals is financially burdensome to the Canadian taxpayer, but the hardship felt by Canadian families amounts to a human tragedy. Where else would we tolerate waiting such a long time for decisions to be rendered that are incorrect 40% of the time? Increasing the accountability of visa officers abroad for overturned decisions would save Canadian taxpayers money and bring families together sooner.

Therefore, our two recommendations to the standing committee are: first, rectify the uneven processing times and rejection rates for family-class sponsorships at visa offices by investing resources where required and ensuring consistency among these offices; secondly, ensure visa office accountability for overturned decisions by making sure that no other family must face the hardship of delayed reunification because of inappropriate and discriminatory compatibility criteria.

While Canadians seeking to sponsor family members from abroad do have a right to an appeal, this is simply not true for refugees and persons in need of protection. After seeking refuge in Canada and often fleeing very precarious situations, successful refugee claimants and persons in need of protection cannot appeal to the immigration appeal division if their application to be reunited with a family member is denied.

The only way to challenge a visa officer's decision is to apply for leave to the Federal Court. However, the Federal Court rejects nearly 80% of these applications. This time-consuming process is costly and emotionally exhausting for refugee families. Even where leave is granted and where the court finds that the visa officer made an error of law, the matter will simply be returned to the visa office.

I would like to thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. I would like to hope that when you are confronted with the question on so many Canadian's minds--how long is too long?--you will stand with us in saying that Canadian families have simply waited far too long already.

Thank you.