Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 1st, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Good afternoon. This is the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, meeting 6, on Thursday, April 1, 2010.

Today we are considering committee business. We appear to have one motion before us, the notice of motion served on us by Ms. Chow.

Ms. Chow, would you like to move the motion?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Yes, Mr. Chair, thank you.

I will read the motion:

That, in the opinion of this Committee, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration should immediately reissue an updated citizenship guide with the removed references to gay rights and gay history restored; that the Committee adopt this recommendation as a report to the House and that, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1), the Chair present it to the House.

Mr. Chair, we had this discussion when the minister was with us two weeks ago, and at that time the minister didn't precisely say whether it was an oversight or not. That's neither here nor there at this point. The citizenship guide is done. I know there will need to be a second or third edition soon, so this motion requests the government and the department to do an updated version so that various aspects of gay history, whether equal marriage or the protection of human rights, including sexual orientation as a ground for non-discrimination, are included in the citizenship guide. I think new citizens coming to this country should know this history.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Debate?

Dr. Wong.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have some reservations about at least two words in this motion. I hope it's at least going to be amended. My concern is about the words “removed references”. When you say “removed”, it means that it was originally there, but right now we have two published guides for citizenship. The first one was done by the Liberals way back, and now we have the newly published one.

So when you say “removed”, you are probably referencing the original one, the Liberal one, saying that it was originally there and that now in the new one it was removed. I have trouble with that, if it doesn't tell the truth because of what's published.

Then I also have a problem with the word “restored”, because if it was never in any of the guides before, we cannot say that it's been removed and cannot say it is to be restored. If we wanted to put this in the new one, then we can only say that we are adding something to it.

So I have problems with those two terms.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Just so that I'm clear about this, Dr. Wong, are you making an amendment to delete those two words, or are you simply speaking against the motion?

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Well, I want a clarification first, to state the truth, and then the actual references.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

It appears you're going to get one.

Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I will amend my motion as follows:

That, in the opinion of this Committee, the Minister and the Department of Citizenship and Immigration reissue

--I even took out the word “immediately”--an updated citizenship guide with references to gay rights and gay history;

Okay?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're just taking them out.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I have no problem with.... Let's not debate the past. We know that while it actually occurred, there are different versions of it. I've seen those versions. This has been in the media.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Is there further debate?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

This is not worth debating--

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Sorry, I just want to....

Are you just changing the one sentence or do you want to remove everything thereafter?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

No, no, we need the rest of the sentence.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

She took the two words out.

Is that correct?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Further debate, Mr. Calandra?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

No, I just want to hear what the new motion says.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Okay, I'll read it again:

That, in the opinion of this Committee, the Minister and the Department of Citizenship and Immigration should reissue an updated citizenship guide with references to gay rights and gay history; that the Committee adopt this recommendation as a report to the House and that, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1), the Chair present it to the House.

I even took out the word “immediately”, because, you know, for the next issue....

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

I have a question, because I have concerns about this motion. It's really not a complete motion.

Madam Chow, what “references” to gay rights in Canadian history do you want? Why don't you consider taking the time to put together a more fulsome motion that the committee can deal with? I mean, what references do you mean? It's so broad.

That's my first—

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Do you want me to write it? I can certainly do that.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Well, I would think so, yes.

That's my primary concern. The second one is this. Do you have any concern with regard to the cost--this guide has just been redesigned after months and months of work, reissued at huge expense, and distributed widely in Canada--such that this couldn't wait until some future guide, until a normal decision is made to issue a new guide at some future date?

Do you have any concerns with regard to those facts?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Maybe you could deal with that question first, Ms. Chow, before I go on.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Sure.

Mr. Chair, every year we have a large number of immigrants becoming citizens. I understand that for the first batch of citizenship guides, which are already printed and distributed, it's too late. But there will be a second printing, a third printing, a fourth printing, etc.

What I am putting in front of the committee is that we absolutely have a responsibility to be very clear about what democracy in Canada is about, and that this Parliament has adopted the rights of gays and lesbians under the law. I think that aspect of it must be written into the citizenship guide.

As to what kind of details, I've already talked about those in terms of legislation. If the committee chooses to study this issue, I have no problem in doing that, but I think this motion is self-explanatory. I don't think we need to design the citizenship guide at this committee. I don't believe that's a wise decision.

So I want this motion to stand today.