Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 30th, 2012

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Okay.

Can you provide assurances to the committee that implementing this policy will in no way actually delay the process of issuing a visa? Are you in a position where you can provide that sort of assurance?

[Les Linklater]

Well, as I said in a response to an earlier question, there will be impacts on clients in terms of the need to provide the biometrics. That's why we're looking at expanding our visa application centre network to more points of service. CIC isn't in all countries now where there is a visa requirement.

We're looking to ensure that we have the maximum coverage possible through these centres, to ensure that the visa processing can be as efficient as possible. There may be some time added on in the process, because of the need to travel to a visa application centre to provide biometrics.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Now, in anticipation that you have to get these fingerprints done through some sort of authority that you would recognize, is that going to be done in the same fashion in which you would require a medical return for a permanent resident? So the Canadian embassy will say, “Here is where you go to get your papers.”

[Les Linklater]

That's correct. We have a number of visa application centres now, in a number of countries, where we have contracted with a firm that specializes in this type of work and has provided service also to the U.K., if I'm not mistaken. These will be our licensed partners, not only for accepting the application, but also for taking the biometrics.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

It was interesting. There are some countries, and India in particular, where there was a huge difference in approvals between New Delhi and Chandigarh. Do you believe that the implementation of biometrics is ultimately going to see more visitor visas being approved?

[Les Linklater]

I think there's a potential as people understand, for example, that their identity is going to be locked in. We will have more confidence with the information we have, in terms of people trying to use different documentation and different identities to apply for a visa. So where there are fraud and identity fraud in certain markets, biometrics will actually help us lock in earlier on, and for legitimate travellers, be able to issue visas with much more confidence.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

For those who have applied for a visa, we now have a record of their fingerprints, if they choose to immigrate to Canada a few years later. Would you use those fingerprints or would you ask them to get yet another set of fingerprints in their permanent application to come to Canada?

[Les Linklater]

At this point, there are no plans to broaden biometrics into the permanent stream. We're focusing on the temporary stream for this project. There may come a time when we will want to have permanent resident applications with biometrics provided. That would, of course, help lock in identity. If we do have a history with the global case management system as our system of record, all of that information will be available on the client continuum.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. James.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for staying.

When we talk about biometrics, it's really a twofold process. First of all, we need to make sure that who applies is who arrives. Second, if the person who applies is not who they say they are, it's really important that we be able to verify that biometric data with other countries.

Could you speak to the aspect of the other countries that also use biometrics and how we're going to be able to check across the databases to make sure that who's applying is who they say they are, and who applies is actually who arrives?

[Les Linklater]

I'll start and perhaps Mr. Desruisseaux can supplement.

We work very closely with our key allies, those in what we call the five country conference: the United States, Australia, the United Kingdom, and New Zealand. Through that process, Australia for the last number of years has been hosting a server to which all the countries provide a limited number of biometrics for verification and cross-checking against each other's submissions.

What we have found is that there have been a number of hits for all countries where we have become aware of individuals who have tried to access one, and in one particular case, all five of the countries using a different identity each and every time. There's one particularly alarming case where I believe someone managed to get into Australia using a false identity, but because biometrics were used they were able to return that individual to the U.K., where I believe he was facing sexual assault charges. It is a tool that we believe will protect Canada and Canadians much more than is the case today with simple biographic information sharing to ensure we know, as you say, that who arrives is the individual who applied.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Again, biometrics is not new.

[Les Linklater]

No.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

When we talk globally, Canada is actually catching up to the rest of the world in many aspects.

[Les Linklater]

It's fair to say, yes.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

In your speech you mentioned that using biometrics will strengthen the integrity of Canada's immigration program by helping to prevent known criminals, failed refugee claimants, and previous deportees from using a false identity to obtain a Canadian visa. Aside from a Canadian visa, is it going to be used, for example, for mass arrivals and human smuggling? Are we going to be able to cross-check the database and use biometrics in those areas?

[Les Linklater]

For individuals who arrive in Canada now as refugee claimants.... Whether or not they're part of what would be deemed a mass arrival, we have been taking biometrics from refugee claimants for a number of years and that practice will continue.

We do information sharing with those biometrics with the United States fairly regularly. Through that process we have determined that a significant number of individuals who claim refugee status in Canada are known to U.S. authorities for any number of reasons, whether it's a previous refugee claim or some sort of criminal infraction or record in the United States.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

In the previous session we had talked about the two vessels that came, Ocean Lady and Sun Sea. Out of the 492 people on the Sun Sea, someone had indicated there were six individuals that were still detained.

[Les Linklater]

Still in detention.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Was it because of the use of biometrics, or if biometrics had been available for those individuals, would it be a different story today?

[Les Linklater]

It could be a different story.

As well, we need to be very careful as to when and how we share information with many countries. The reason I say that is that if we were to share information with an alleged country of persecution and the individual was found not to need protection, we may create, through the act of sharing information, what we would call a refugee sur place. The person may not have had a fear of persecution, but by sharing their personal information and the fact they've made a claim in Canada, we could actually put them in jeopardy if they were to be returned to that country. That's why by using the RCMP as the body to do the sharing through their contacts, whether it's Interpol or other databases to which they have access, I think we'll be able to manage those issues much more carefully.

Chuck, I don't know if you want to add to that.

[C/Supt Chuck Walker]

I think you have it pretty well covered.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Common sense tells us, at least it tells me, that we need to identify people before they arrive in Canada. We hear about what it costs taxpayers to keep someone in detention if he arrives with no documentation, so we need to identify these people.

Could you elaborate on how difficult it is to locate someone who may have gone underground, someone whom we were not able to identify, who came here by fraudulent means or through organized crime? How difficult is it to locate that individual and have them deported from Canada? Also, what are your comments on whether biometrics, if we were able to identify people first, would help matters?

[Les Linklater]

CBSA is responsible for managing removals and deportations. It is very challenging for the agency to know where all failed claimants are who aren't in detention. People are often released on terms and conditions. Many are not, but some individuals fail to report to the agency with a change of address, or they decide to try to cross the border into the United States, or they decide to go home. One of the gaps that we currently have and are moving to fill is an exit information system, which is one of the initiatives that will be forthcoming under the perimeter strategy with the United States. This will allow the agency to know whether individuals have left the country voluntarily or not. It will help them to narrow their search in determining where those individuals may be, if we know they haven't left the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm going to ask a brief question about exchanging information with other jurisdictions. How do people know whether those jurisdictions might go beyond what we allow? I think Mr. Walker explained who has access to the information. But it could end up in other regimes. Are there agreements? How do we know those regimes or other jurisdictions won't go beyond what Canada allows?