Evidence of meeting #37 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was refugees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:05 p.m.
Prof. Mary Crock
Yes. Well, thank you very much. The language you're talking, though, is very much the language of deterrence.
I understand. I've spent a good deal of time in Canada. I have, in fact, been involved very closely with the refugee determination system in Canada, so I'm very familiar with it.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
The next time you're in Canada, let's get together, because you clearly need to understand our position on this issue and where we're moving.
Thank you.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
Could we please let the witness...? She hadn't finished yet.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
She was mid-sentence. If you could have patience, it would be appreciated.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
6:05 p.m.
NDP
6:05 p.m.
Prof. Mary Crock
I understand your frustration, and I've observed this for many years. The problem is there is a difference between detaining people for the purpose of working out whether they are going to cause a threat to the country and mandatory detention, which, frankly, becomes punitive.
If you want to talk about how to better protect your migration system, I'm very happy to do that. What I'm trying to say to you is that temporary protection is only going to increase the number of asylum seekers you get, not decrease it. Detention is not going to deter or stop any of the practices that you're talking about. What will, if you're interested, is looking at the sources, where people are coming from.
My problem with this is that people think they can make quick-fix solutions to a very complex question. The only people you're going to convince of this, I think, are your constituents, who want to see you doing something. I don't think it will have an impact. Sorry.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
6:10 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
Mr. Dykstra, you have six seconds. Actually, you have three now. You're done.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
The chair has used my time to indicate that I have no time left. Very nice.
Thank you.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
I apologize.
We will move on to our next parliamentarian, and that is Madame Groguhé.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
6:10 p.m.
Mary Crock
Good afternoon.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
The current debate and the testimony we have heard so far make me believe that the way we treat our refugees today should be a sign of progress for our civilization, not a step backwards. In a vast country like Canada, we have the moral obligation to make that happen and to lead by example.
I would like to make sure that you actually made the following remarks. So I would ask that you give me short answers.
You said that mandatory detention affected the whole fabric of society in Australia. Is that correct?
You may make some comments if you need to, but please be quick.
6:10 p.m.
Mary Crock
Could you repeat the question?
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
You said that mandatory detention affected the whole fabric of society in Australia. Is that correct?
6:10 p.m.
Mary Crock
It is difficult to answer that question in a few seconds. I will simply say that mandatory detention led to wrongful imprisonment and, as a result, to riots.
For example, racial riots were very much world news when they arose and they were the same groups of people.
I apologize. I don't practice speaking French enough, but I am doing my best.
In a nutshell, the situation was in fact detrimental to the society.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
Okay.
You also said that the measure had not deterred people from coming to Australia by boat or otherwise. Is that correct?
6:10 p.m.
Mary Crock
Yes, it is.
You can see the number of asylum seekers and irregular immigrants.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
6:10 p.m.
Mary Crock
Yes, the costs were huge, unprecedented, right from the beginning.
6:10 p.m.
Mary Crock
In a situation like that, you have to build prisons, right? The problem with this piece of legislation is that it is so vague that it does not only deal with
irregular maritime arrivals.
Given the terms used in it, it could easily apply to other people as well. It is too vague.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
Very well.
In addition, you said you were disappointed to see that Canada wanted to introduce legislation that will violate human rights and the rule of law. Is that correct?