Evidence of meeting #40 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-31.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Catherine Dauvergne  Canada Research Chair in Migration Law, University of British Columbia, Faculty of Law, As an Individual
Sharryn Aiken  Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Queen's University, As an Individual
Kelsey Angeley  Student, B. Refuge, McGill University
Karina Fortier  Student, B. Refuge, McGill University
Alex Neve  Secretary General, Amnesty International Canada, Amnesty International
Béatrice Vaugrante  Executive Director, Amnesty International Canada Francophone, Amnesty International
Christoph Ehrentraut  Counselor, European Harmonization Unit, Federal Government of Germany
Excellency Bernhard Brinkmann  Ambassador, Delegation of the European Union to Canada
Anja Klabundt  Counsellor, of European Harmonization Unit, Ministry of the Interior, Federal Government of Germany
Roland Brumberg  Counselor of Unit Immigration Law, Federal Government of Germany
Ioana Patrascu  Legal Officer, Directorate General, Home Affairs, Asylum Unit, European Commission
Angela Martini  Policy Officer, Directorate General, Home Affairs, Border Management and Return Policy Unit, European Commission

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you very much, Mr. Brumberg. I know there will be questions.

We will start off with a representative from the Conservative Party, Ms. James.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to extend a special welcome to all of our guests today. There are certainly a large number here, and I'm very delighted to see you all here.

Much of Bill C-31, which we're debating here, has to do with designating certain countries as safe countries. I know that many democratic European countries designate certain countries as safe and actually accelerate asylum procedures for claims from those countries. There's a long list of these countries: United Kingdom, France, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Ireland, Netherlands, and so on. This is not something new on the world stage. Canada is actually behind a lot of the other countries we're most commonly compared against.

I just have a question specifically regarding the United Kingdom, the U.K. The process for claimants in some streams takes as little as 10 to 14 days—that's what I've been told. Is this a correct statement?

I'm not sure who I should direct this to. Perhaps our guests—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

It should probably go to somebody in Brussels.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Did you hear the question?

11:15 a.m.

Ioana Patrascu Legal Officer, Directorate General, Home Affairs, Asylum Unit, European Commission

We heard the question.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

My question was whether it is correct that in the U.K. the processes for certain streams take as little as 10 to 14 days.

11:15 a.m.

Legal Officer, Directorate General, Home Affairs, Asylum Unit, European Commission

Ioana Patrascu

I'm not in a position to comment on specific practices of member states without first checking, but these can vary. Based on our information, this could be the case.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

We've actually done some research, and it is 10 to 14 days, which is actually a much shorter timeline than what we're proposing in Canada under Bill C-31.

We keep hearing that we might be in violation of the UN convention on refugees. In your opinion—and this is to any of the guests who can answer this question—is the United Kingdom in contravention of the UN convention on refugees?

11:15 a.m.

Legal Officer, Directorate General, Home Affairs, Asylum Unit, European Commission

Ioana Patrascu

If you strictly refer to the duration, then the answer is no. However, this needs to be assessed in conjunction with other elements, so it's the way it's applied.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Is it also true that included on the U.K.'s list of safe countries are countries such as Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Liberia, Malawi, Nigeria, and Sierra Leone? Are those also designated as safe countries in the U.K.?

11:15 a.m.

Legal Officer, Directorate General, Home Affairs, Asylum Unit, European Commission

Ioana Patrascu

Again, I am sorry, but I cannot comment on behalf of specific member states.

As you are aware, these are national lists of countries, not European ones, so I'm not in a position to reply on this. I don't have the information.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Are there any of our guests here today who could confirm that statement?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

These people are here representing the European Commission, not individual states.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Okay. Let me reword that question a bit.

With regard to not representing an individual state or country, do you believe any of these countries that are currently in the process of designating safe countries, with a very short timeline for review and processing, are in violation or contravention of the UN convention on refugees? If you do, then that long list of countries I just named would be a serious problem right now.

Do you believe that any of those countries right now are in contravention of the UN convention on refugees?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I think they've already answered that they don't know. They don't know individual states.

11:15 a.m.

Legal Officer, Directorate General, Home Affairs, Asylum Unit, European Commission

Ioana Patrascu

The commission is monitoring the situation. However, we cannot pronounce ourselves today on the fact of knowing whether a member state is in violation of the acquis or not. When we consider that this is the case, we launch legal proceedings to the European Court of Justice.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Legal Officer, Directorate General, Home Affairs, Asylum Unit, European Commission

Ioana Patrascu

This is the only thing I can say.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you.

Perhaps I'll direct a couple more questions toward the Federal Government of Germany.

Germany has a policy by which all EU claimants and designated safe countries include Ghana and Senegal, and are presumed manifestly unfounded unless proven otherwise and are processed on a fast track.

Do you believe that your policies in Germany contravene the UN convention on refugees, if this is the current process you are using today?

11:20 a.m.

Counsellor, of European Harmonization Unit, Ministry of the Interior, Federal Government of Germany

Anja Klabundt

We think the countries you named, Senegal and Ghana, are safe countries of origin, and we don't think the procedure opposes the UN convention.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you very much.

My last question is directed to Germany. Compared to many other EU countries with the designated country of origin policy and process, under Canada's bill, which we're proposing, Bill C-31, Canada would have longer timelines for DCO countries than many other European countries do today.

Do you agree with that, based on information that you can provide?

11:20 a.m.

Counsellor, of European Harmonization Unit, Ministry of the Interior, Federal Government of Germany

Anja Klabundt

We have no accelerated procedures, except the so-called airport procedure.

To be honest, I don't know the timelines foreseen in the new Canadian asylum system.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

It's actually 45 days for processing for the safe countries that we want to designate. It's a lot longer than many other countries currently have, countries that we're compared against in the long list I provided.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We're out of time.

11:20 a.m.

Counsellor, of European Harmonization Unit, Ministry of the Interior, Federal Government of Germany

Anja Klabundt

I can just say that we normally have no deadlines; we just have a normal asylum procedure, except for the so-called airport procedure, and there we have shorter deadlines.