Evidence of meeting #45 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
I really inspire Mr. Weston. I notice that every time I speak he leans forward, and then he can't quite decide whether he's going to speak or not.
Go for it.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
That's correct. I agree with what you just said.
Let me now disagree—
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Let me now disagree with what you said before that.
Mr. Chair, the difference between being in opposition and government—from my few years of relatively new experience—is that when you're in opposition you can talk about the statistically impossible thing, the Utopian perspective where you're delivering everything to all the people all the time.
When you're in government, you have to make decisions; you have to set priorities. What this government is doing responsibly is trying to allocate the resources so we can keep a refugee system in place that can open its gates to the world and help people who really need help, rather than being bogged down by the statistically insignificant cases. If we implemented procedures around this as you would desire, my friend, it would slow down the system so that we would never be able to keep it going. It would finally collapse on its own procedures.
It's why we're here and why we're trying to improve the system.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The Canadian government has an obligation to create a balance in our refugee determination process to make it fast while upholding our Canadian values of fairness. This amendment would do that.
There were witnesses who raised numerous concerns about concentrating this decision in the hands of the minister. Without an independent panel of experts, the qualitative criteria should be explicit. We have heard and we've said that no country is truly safe. A country that is considered safe for some residents may be unsafe for others.
Impartiality towards the development and maintenance of this list is extremely important. If this is not going to happen, then the criteria included in this amendment must be considered. It's confusing as to why Bill C-31 would remove this safeguard.
Thank you.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
Thank you.
I don't think I have ever been called Utopian, or anything.... You just need to talk to some of the students I've taught over the years and look at some of the other things I've done in my life.
I'll tell you, no human life is inconsequential. We're talking about very vulnerable people who come to our shores, who come to our country. By the way, in the last decade we've maybe had two boats—and I've heard that confirmed—and out of those two boats the vast majority were accepted as legitimate refugees.
When we're asking for this particular amendment...we did mention the Roma, and we'll use that as an example. Last year we accepted well over 100 people from the Roma community as refugees under the Geneva Convention.
All we're asking for in this amendment is for us to recognize something we already know: there is no country that is 100% safe.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to quickly turn to the word “statistically” used by Mr. Weston. Since he wants to talk about statistics, could he tell me how many refugee boats full of irregular arrivals have come over the last decade? There have been very few. Yet Bill C-31 relies on arrival statistics, which are very low. Also, this is not Utopia. When we talk about human beings, fundamental rights, recognizing the right to seek asylum and the rights of refugees, we are talking about a concrete reality grounded in fact. People are fleeing persecution and are taking boats or using any other means to come here.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
Regardless of how they arrive, these people are fleeing persecution. They must be considered and respected as refugees first and foremost.
That's what I wanted to add.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Mr. Chair, according to some people, the world is dividing in half: those who are Irish and those who wish they were. Unfortunately, Ireland is part of two countries. Perhaps that's the problem. One of those countries is England, a democratic country. It's a state of law, a state we have an excellent relationship with. Northern Ireland, one of the provinces of England, isn't necessarily a good place to live if you are Catholic in a Protestant area and vice versa.
We're basically saying that there are very specific problems in that area. We consider England a democratic country, but is it completely free of violence? That's something that needs to be considered.
Some Latin American countries are democratic, but a unionist there has an extremely short life expectancy. That's something we should perhaps consider if we are unionists. If someone is a unionist in those countries, the life expectancy is 25 years lower than the national average. It's true; it's not something we made up.
There are very democratic countries where small communities face extreme persecution. For religious or historical reasons, the Duncan clan in Scotland was demonized for centuries, under the pretext that they were a clan of thieves. This type of tradition repeated to the extreme leads to unacceptable shunning. That doesn't mean that England and Scotland aren't democratic countries.
We are simply asking you to take it into account. The minister still makes the decision; we aren't changing that power. We would like to, but it's not the purpose of the amendment. With this amendment, we're asking you to recognize something as simple as the fact that some careers, like that of a human rights lawyer, may be at risk in some countries. That's all we're asking for.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
My heritage is from northern Ireland, and I'm always pleased when someone raises the Irish. I think it's a good place to live. I'm not seeking dual citizenship, but they have good beer.
We're talking about NDP-19.
(Amendment negatived)
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
I will go through it again if you wish, Ms. Sims, but NDP-20 does require a royal recommendation.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
Chair, what we were attempting to do with this amendment is to put in place an advisory panel to designate countries as safe, because we believe it's too much power in the hands of one minister.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
