Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 19th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Good morning. I welcome you to the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, meeting 59.

This meeting will last from 10 a.m. until 1 p.m. This meeting is televised.

Our orders of the day, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), are to study clauses 308 to 314 in the budget implementation bill, Bill C-45.

We have with us today familiar faces—Mr. Linklater, the assistant deputy minister of strategic and program policy, and his colleagues.

Good morning to you, sir, again. You can make a presentation to the committee of up to 20 minutes.

Thank you for coming, sir.

[Les Linklater, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you.

I will introduce my colleagues: Maia Welbourne, who is the director in admissibility policy responsible for the electronic travel authorization, and Marie Bourry, our senior general counsel.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to speak to you today about Bill C-45, the Jobs and Growth Act, 2012, and more specifically the subject matter of division 16 of part 4 of the act. I will focus my remarks on one particular element of this piece of legislation: a measure that will bring valuable improvements to Canada's immigration system.

As members of this committee are well aware, the Government of Canada has made the reform of the immigration system an important priority. Recent initiatives in this regard have helped to foster an immigration system that can fill significant labour shortages across the country and help us meet our economic needs more quickly and efficiently—a system designed to give newcomers the best possible chance to succeed.

As it does so, the government is implementing policies that safeguard the integrity and security of our immigration system. Taken together, all of these initiatives are helping to deliver transformation changes to the immigration system.

Not only is that system central to our economic well-being and our social cohesion, Mr. Chair, it is also an important piece of Canada's international relations agenda. And in the area of international relationships, our partnership with our closest ally, the United States, is of paramount importance to Canada. Indeed, the United States is—by far—Canada's largest trading partner. In a typical year, more than $500 billion worth of two-way trade takes place between our countries. Also, about 400,000 people cross our shared border every day, by all modes of transport.

As you know, last year, Prime Minister Harper and President Obama launched the action plan on perimeter security and economic competitiveness. This agreement signaled a mutual desire on the part of both Canada and the United States to work in partnership to enhance the security of our borders and facilitate the flow of people and goods between our countries. Passage of the Jobs and Growth Act, 2012 will help fulfill one of Canada's key commitments of the action plan.

That's because one of the measures in this bill would enable the implementation of the eTA, an electronic travel authorization.

The eTA is a measure that will bring valuable improvements to Canada's immigration system. We will be able to screen individuals before they board a plane to visit our country, in order to determine whether or not they pose an admissibility or security risk. In other words, we will be able to determine whether they have a criminal record or something else on their file that shows they present a risk to Canada. This will apply to foreign nationals who do not require a visa to visit Canada; the only exception would be American citizens.

With the passage of this bill, visitors to Canada who are nationals of non-visa-required countries—with the exception of the United States, as I mentioned—will be required to apply for an eTA in order to travel to Canada. This new system will be in place by the spring of 2015.

This is a notable development in the reform of our immigration system and in our partnership with our southern neighbour. Consistent with our beyond-the-border commitments, the new system will address threats to North America and help ensure security in the continental perimeter we share with the United States.

It will establish a common Canada-U.S. approach to screening travellers before they depart their home countries by plane to travel to North America. The U.S. already has a similar system in place: it's called the “electronic system for travel authorization”, or ESTA. The U.S. system has proved to be a great success since it was established in 2008.

Working together, our travel authorization systems will not only help to address possible security threats to North America, but they will also help to ease the flow of travellers who do not pose any potential risk to our countries. That's because we'll be able to identify and screen out inadmissible individuals while they are still overseas, instead of dealing with them once they arrive at a Canadian port of entry.

Here is how it will work. Eligible foreign nationals—individuals who don't require a visa to enter Canada—will be required to make online applications for an eTA before they board a plane to Canada. Our system will then check the traveller's information against applicable databases.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, we will be able to grant travellers an eTA within minutes of applying. A small minority of applications will require additional scrutiny by Canadian visa officers. If a visa officer determines that any given applicant is inadmissible to Canada and therefore ineligible for an eTA, that individual will not be allowed to board a plane to this country.

The beauty and efficiency of this new system is self-evident: it gives Canadian officials the ability to identify and screen out inadmissible individuals overseas instead of dealing with them only once they've arrived at a port of entry. This will have benefits in terms of reduced costs and resources required to process people in Canada. It could also speed up the process of entering Canada for low-risk foreign travellers. Once it is up and running, the eTA should also act as a deterrent to those inadmissible individuals who won't want their information verified before travelling; it will deter them from even attempting to travel to Canada.

Mr. Chair, it's important to stress, once again, that the eTA will only apply to those foreign nationals from visa-exempt countries. For travellers to Canada from visa-required countries, we will continue with the current process of requiring them to apply for visas before they can come to our country. Also, the eTA will not apply to U.S. citizens traveling to Canada, just as the requirements of the U.S. ESTA program do not apply to Canadian citizens.

It's also very important to note that all collection, use and storage of personal information in the administration of the eTA will fully comply with Canada's Privacy Act and the Canada-U.S. privacy principles.

In conclusion, Mr. Chair, the government has demonstrated a strong commitment to strengthening the immigration system to make it truly proactive, targeted, fast, and efficient in a way that will contribute to Canada's economic growth and help deliver prosperity for the future. It has also put in place policies that safeguard the integrity and security of that system.

Thank you. We'll be pleased to answer questions that members of the committee may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Linklater.

Mr. Menegakis.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to say a big thank you to our witnesses.

Mr. Linklater, welcome back. I want to thank you also for the number of times you've been here. I—and I believe all my colleagues as well—find it very informative to have people from the department here. Your input has been very valuable.

Mr. Linklater, we've heard from several witnesses—and I've asked many times—specifically about the eTA. Can you give us your assessment of how you think the eTA will help CBSA officers do their job?

[Les Linklater]

Certainly.

Mr. Chair, it is important to understand how the process works now for individuals who travel to Canada who don't require a visa. They are able to board flights from points of embarkation coming to Canada with very little scrutiny before they actually travel. The CBSA does receive advance passenger information, but only once, in common parlance, “wheels are up”, so once the plane has taken off, and then manifests with information, tombstone data, are provided to the CBSA so that they can have a good understanding as to which passengers are coming to Canada. Of course, they can only deal with the individuals once the plane has landed and they can see the individuals in front of them at the port of entry.

At that point, if there are issues of inadmissibility, individuals will be examined by the CBSA. Individuals may choose to make a refugee claim, at which point they are into the system and would be allowed to remain in Canada for that claim to be heard if they are found to be eligible. If there were serious criminality or security issues, they would be found ineligible for a refugee claim but still would be entitled to a pre-removal risk assessment and they would go into the system for that. In certain cases, if they posed a significant danger, they might find themselves in detention and the review processes that take place in front of the IRB.

What we are proposing with the eTA is to push the threat and risk of those types of cases offshore so that those individuals would not be able even to make it to a port of entry, unless of course they had been screened through the eTA prior to departure. Essentially, what will happen is that individuals will go online, they will put in some basic information with regard to their name, date of birth, country of citizenship, and that sort of thing, and the system will, I would expect, in more than 90% of all cases, be able to turn around a decision electronically within minutes. This is what happens under the U.S. system. It's what happens under the Australian system as well, where the information is fed back almost instantaneously.

With that eTA, then, airlines will be able to check before people board the plane, as people are checking in: “Do you have your eTA?” “Yes, here's the confirmation.” The CBSA's migration integrity officers could check again prior to actual boarding of the plane that individuals have a valid eTA. Essentially, we will have the assurance that there has been that level of screening taking place before individuals actually board a plane, let alone before a plane takes off or lands at a port of entry. We feel that for the population this will be focused on, in those countries where there is no scrutiny now because there is no visa requirement, this will help reduce costs and make the experience that much more helpful and efficient for legitimate travellers, while keeping any additional threats to be dealt with offshore.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Isn't that our goal? Our goal is to keep out risks, to keep people away from our communities who would pose a risk to our communities. Identifying them before they even board the plane to come to Canada would seem to me to be a very prudent exercise.

Let me just restate something that Pierre Sabourin said. He's the vice-president of the operations branch, as you well know, at the Canada Border Services Agency. Here's what he had to say, “With the eTA system, we will have the ability to inform the airline, before the flight has left, to not board that passenger.”

It's important that we reiterate this. Someone who has a criminal record, who can pose a problem before he comes here, is identified before he even gets on the plane and the airline takes him off that plane. We've eliminated that risk factor plus what's involved in dealing with him when he arrives here.

Let me ask this. What if someone forgets to fill out, or isn't aware there is a need to fill out, the eTA, once we have implemented the system, and arrives at the airport without one? What would be the process?

[Les Linklater]

In that instance, you're quite correct, without an eTA the airline would not board the individual. Given the propensity or the availability of hand-held devices as well as Internet café stations and that sort of thing in airports, we don't foresee a difficulty for an individual, where there is no problem, being able to obtain an eTA fairly quickly through available Internet connections.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Some people have brought up the idea of an appeal for those who are found inadmissible, similar to what's in the U.S. model. I understand ours is going to work somewhat differently. Can you explain that, please?

[Les Linklater]

For problematic cases, I'm happy to explain the process that we envisage.

Essentially, the applicant would fill out the online application. Verifications would be done centrally through what we would call a centre here manned by CIC officers 24/7. If there were any indications of adverse information, the eTA would not be issued, but the client would then be directed to the nearest Canadian office to have an interview or an examination with a Canadian visa officer overseas. That officer would then complete the interview to determine whether an eTA should be issued. Essentially, they would have access to the resources and the supports that are normally available through CBSA and our Public Safety partners.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

Ms. Sims.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much.

I really appreciate the fact that you're here bright and early on a Monday morning. It's brighter for some of us who are just switching time zones than it is for others.

First, we have previously made it clear that the NDP supports the principle of electronic travel authorization systems. We know that these have been successfully implemented by many countries already. That being said, we have some concerns about privacy, about the impact on tourism, and about the capacity of CIC and CBSA to implement such a significant change.

A headline in the Vancouver Sun a month ago, when the budget implementation act was tabled, read “New rules for visitors raise privacy [concerns]”.

The Privacy Commissioner of Canada echoed that concern in a submission to our committee. Jennifer Stoddart, the Privacy Commissioner, had this to say:

One of my Office's concerns about the eTA program is its lack of transparency and the degree to which the details of the program are deferred to regulation. Fundamental questions about the eTA program such as which data elements are to be provided to CIC, how this information can be used, and how long it is retained are not set out in statute as we believe they should be. To a large degree, these matters have been shaped behind closed doors...rather than through open and public debate.

Obviously, as departmental officials, you won't be in a position to comment on some of the political questions this statement raises about the level of secrecy and about why these changes aren't set out in statute. We are disappointed that the minister declined the committee's invitation to testify today to answer some of these important political questions.

However, the commissioner does make a number of recommendations, one of which I would like to get your take on. She says:

...CIC should implement proactive privacy training and policies for the proper controls on access and use of the new eTA system.

Given the cutbacks we know are affecting front-line services at CIC, do you feel your department would have the proper resources to make sure privacy training and oversight are in place with this new system?

[Les Linklater]

Perhaps I could give a little more background in terms of work that has already been undertaken with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. As we move forward with this initiative—and just to underline, what the budget bill contains are the legislative authorities to be able to put an eTA in place—you're quite right that a lot of the detail will flow through regulation. However, we will have to prepublish regulations that are developed to support the eTA, and there will be a public commentary period to be able to support the advancement of those regulations. Also, working with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, we will be required to do what's called a privacy impact assessment dealing with many of the issues you've raised regarding collection, use, retention, and disposal of information that is collected through the eTA process.

We've had an initial consultation with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, and Ms. Welbourne can provide a bit more detail on that. As we move forward with this initiative, officers will of course be guided by the regulations and policy guidelines with regard to how they would operate with the eTA. For the most part—over 90%, as I said—this will be an automated process. When there is adverse information on an individual, no one will be refused an eTA without a face-to-face interview with a Canadian visa officer. They would have the opportunity to present any additional information they might have. Of course, the principles of natural justice would apply through that interview. They would know why they would be refused.

Perhaps I could ask Ms. Welbourne to talk a bit more about privacy.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Briefly, please, because I have a couple of other questions.

[Maia Welbourne, Director, Document and Visa Policy, Admissibility Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Very briefly, then, as Mr. Linklater said, we met with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner over the summer and gave them an overview of the eTA as planned at that time. But it is true that the guts of the program will be implemented via the regulations, so we've undertaken to work very closely with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner as we develop those regulations.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I really appreciate your answers, and once again have to stress that I wish these were in statute rather than in regulations. But that's not your area to comment on.

We all want to make sure that Canada is safe and secure from any potential security threat. I don't think anybody is going to say that anybody around this table doesn't support that. But when I look at these requirements here, it essentially is a new visa requirement from previously visa-exempt countries.

Can you comment on what impact, if any, this may have on tourism to Canada? Combined with a high dollar, could this scare away potential visitors from our struggling tourism sector?

[Les Linklater]

I guess you could term this as a type of visa requirement. We would look at this as a security screening opportunity to push risks and threats offshore to the extent possible.

There will be a fee required for the eTA. We think it will be nominal, a very small fee in comparison with what Australia or the U.S. charge, which I think ranges up to $20 for a one- or two-year period for validity of an eTA. We think we can manage this with a notional fee, but would look at providing an opportunity for perhaps a five-year validity for an eTA. Of course, if adverse information comes to light during that period, the eTA would be withdrawn, but we think we can design a system built on the experience of trusted partners like the Americans and the Australians, to learn from what they did well or where they perhaps could have done things a bit differently, and build that into our design.

I think there may be a bit of an issue in terms of the transition period to the requirement for an eTA, but we are planning quite aggressive communication strategies to ensure that travellers to Canada know well in advance of the requirement going live that they will need to apply for this, and of course ensuring that for particularly large-transit airports, the Internet capacity is there for people to be able to apply.

But perhaps—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Linklater.

Mr. Lamoureux.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses being here.

I must say right at the beginning that the Liberal Party would have preferred to have seen this as a separate piece of legislation; that the impact this is having is quite significant; and that it is indeed inappropriate to be sneaking it in through a budget implementation bill.

Having said that, there are a couple of questions in regard to the cost. What does the government anticipate the cost of implementing this program to be?

[Maia Welbourne]

As Mr. Linklater points out, it will be cost-recovered. I will look and make sure that I have the details about the costs, but the idea is to ensure that there is no impact on the Canadian taxpayer.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I think it's important that we understand—given that, no doubt, one would think, the department has actually been looking at the details of this particular program—that the minister just hasn't been forthright and transparent with Canadians in terms of explaining what is the cost. We need to know the revenue. We talk about how there is going to be a fee. We're interested in knowing the hard numbers. Facts are important in implementing a program of this nature. We'd appreciate hearing those numbers from the witnesses.

As well, how many individuals today, on average, can we anticipate that this will negatively impact? We talk about the majority; we have hundreds of thousands of people around the world who come into Canada. Even though you talk about a minority of individuals who will be rejected, how many do you anticipate will actually be rejected? Are we talking 25,000 a year, 50,000 a year? What do you anticipate the number of rejections will be?

[Les Linklater]

As part of our work around program design, we've looked at a number of factors. We would anticipate that probably less than 2% of the current volume would be adversely affected by an eTA.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

So if we look at 2%, you're talking about thousands of people worldwide who would be rejected, right?

[Les Linklater]

Correct.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

What sort of turnaround time do you anticipate? Do we have the resources to enable them a timely process in order to come to Canada?

[Les Linklater]

Yes. In fact, as Ms. Welbourne said, we will be recovering the costs of this program over a period of time, but there will be initial investments required to be able to ramp up, to build the type of supports that you're referring to. For an individual who has adverse information on their file and is directed to see a Canadian visa officer, we are, in our design model, ensuring that there are additional resources available for our operations overseas to be able to deal with those increased reports—