Evidence of meeting #7 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was immigration.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Martin Collacott  Spokesperson, Centre for Immigration Policy Reform, As an Individual
Roger Bhatti  Immigration Lawyer, As an Individual
Justin Taylor  Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association
Arthur Sweetman  Department of Economics, McMaster University, As an Individual
Felix Zhang  Coordinator, Sponsor our Parents
Dan Bohbot  President, Quebec Immigration Lawyers Association (AQAADI)

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you.

Mr. Lamoureux.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Sweetman, I want to follow up. You emphasized a lot in terms of the age and economics. If you take a look at the family class sponsor, in particular with the parents, many of these parents are relatively young. They may be in their late forties, early fifties, and they'll have dependants who they'll be coming with.

Now, if you tack on to a lengthy processing backlog time.... For example, you might have a 51-year-old couple who have 17- to 21-year-olds living in their home, and then you tack on that processing time.

Can you give us some insight in terms of your take on something of that nature? I'm thinking in terms of their productivity and how we might be denying that productivity by having that lengthy waiting time. Is it better for us to establish a separate stream for that type of parent?

12:45 p.m.

Prof. Arthur Sweetman

I don't know if we want to establish a separate stream or not. I think that the first person was arguing for a global stream, and we're moving that way with our global case management system, which will be a big improvement for Canada's capacity to deal with people fairly around the world.

In terms of age at immigration, it's reasonably well established in the research literature that there is an important relationship between age at arrival and long-term labour market outcomes. On average, younger immigrants do much better and find it easier to integrate socially and economically into Canada. We want to be thinking about that quite a lot in terms of the delays that we're imposing on people in the backlog.

For parents and grandparents, it depends on whether or not they actually intend to enter the Canadian labour force. One of the things that was suggested earlier for people not interested in entering the labour force is long-term multiple admission visas. Perhaps that's an alternative we might want to think about for that particular subset of individuals.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

What about the internal policy the government has in terms of...? If you're a 22-year-old, and you're just beginning that process--as a parent, you can expect to be in the process for, let's say, seven years or more now--you're obligated not to go into the work environment, because then you lose your dependant status. You have to stay in some sort of public educational facility.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Or should we look at changing that particular issue?

I realize it's a bit off-topic, but we were talking about the age.

12:50 p.m.

Prof. Arthur Sweetman

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by losing status. For people who have immigrated to Canada, once they've immigrated, status is irrelevant. We know that the spouses and dependants of a skilled worker principal applicant look very similar to the spouses, partners, parents, and grandparents of people who enter in the family class.

One of the things we might want to be thinking about is this comparability of individuals across classes who are in some sense similar. What I'm saying is that spouses and dependants of the skilled workers look like the spouses, dependants, and parents coming in through family class.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Yes.

12:50 p.m.

Prof. Arthur Sweetman

I know we sometimes make these artificial--

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

I'm suggesting that we need to think even outside of the backlog, in regard to your comments about economics and age. If I'm a 24-year-old dependant with my principal applicant, my father, and he has to wait seven years, I cannot work. I have to stay in school.

That requires a government regulation change that would enable me to remain a dependant and still be in the workforce back in my home country while my case is being processed, if you follow what I mean.

12:50 p.m.

Prof. Arthur Sweetman

Sorry; I understand your question now.

I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the details. Is it the age at the time of entry that matters or age at the time of application that matters for dependants?

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

It's actually age at the time of entry. You have to be attending a publicly accredited educational facility or you'll be classified as an independent, and you'll have to put in your own application and start the process all over again.

12:50 p.m.

Prof. Arthur Sweetman

I was not aware of that, but it makes good sense that it would work that way. That implies that there are important implications for dependants of being in the queue for an extended period, especially dependants who are older children at the time of application.

That's actually a very important ramification of having a long backlog that I hadn't thought about before.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

I appreciate your comment.

I don't know how much time I have, Mr. Chair.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

You don't have any time.

12:50 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Thank you for your time--all presenters.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Dykstra and then Mr. Weston.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Sweetman, I appreciated the three points you made. One of the difficulties we sometimes have is really getting our witnesses to drive through to recommendations that deal with the backlogs. I know it's difficult for folks, because they do want to talk about issues that are in the current queue, but what we're really trying to study here is the reduction and to work through our backlogs.

I wondered if you could give me a brief and more detailed answer on an issue you touched on. We ended up with this system in 2002 of accepting absolutely every application—whichever category it came under, Canada was obligated to follow through with each one of those applications.

Do you think we're at the point now where we need to change that system? Do we need to find a way to work through this in a proper way that gets to the economic development that you're speaking of, while keeping a balance and ensuring that families are, in fact, able to spend their lives together?

12:50 p.m.

Prof. Arthur Sweetman

I think we've already done in the economic class immigration what you recommend through the ministerial instructions by imposing quotas, especially for the skilled worker category. So half of your question has already been accomplished.

The real issue that I think you're questioning is whether we should impose similar quotas for family class, and I don't know; that's a moral question rather than an economic question whether people believe that having parents come is particularly important. I think for individuals in our society, it is. For recent immigrants, it's very important to have their parents come.

The question we have to ask ourselves as a society is how much we're willing to bear the risk of health care costs associated with those parents and grandparents.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

We all make decisions in life with respect to a priority scale that we work through to determine which outcome of one of those priorities allows us to make decisions.

Do you think the number one priority for an individual who is determining to come to Canada to become a permanent resident and eventually a Canadian citizen is to bring their family here, their parents and grandparents? Or do you think their priority lies more with their potential to develop their careers, when they're not able to do so in their country of origin, and with the fact that they want to bring their children here for a better opportunity, a better life within Canada?

12:55 p.m.

Prof. Arthur Sweetman

I suspect there is a wide diversity of opinions and desires among the thousands of people who are entering, and that some are less interested in bringing their parents, but that for many of them bringing parents is quite important.

I don't think there's a single answer to that. I think there's quite a wide, heterogeneous answer.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

I appreciate that. Thanks.

Felix, this brings me to the question I have for you. I know that you made a presentation when we dealt with wait times. In fact, your presentation then was almost identical to your presentation now.

We had hoped to have folks come here to speak specifically to the backlogs and the reductions and present what recommendations you would make respecting those reductions, or at least for trying to deal with the backlog. I'm sorry if we weren't clear enough in terms of what we were expecting with respect to a presentation.

I have the same question for you as I've asked Mr. Sweetman. That is, your presentation and your focus is heavily laden with your issue with respect to parents and grandparents. You understand, do you, that Citizenship and Immigration is a very multi-dimensional ministry and that immigration isn't solely focused on the issue you are bringing to the table?

12:55 p.m.

Coordinator, Sponsor our Parents

Felix Zhang

We totally understand that.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

So why is it that this is the only issue you bring to the table versus...?

I know I don't have the time here, but it would be interesting to see why you made the determination to bring yourself and your family here to Canada—for a better life, obviously—and how it has worked out for you. I'd love to sit down with you sometime and do that. But I'd really like to get a clear understanding in the other categories.

Why did you make the decision to come to this country? Is it in fact one that is better for your immediate family—for you, for your wife, for your children?

12:55 p.m.

Coordinator, Sponsor our Parents

Felix Zhang

Yes. I came to Canada about ten years ago as a skilled worker. That is my personal experience.

Today I'm representing a group, Sponsor our Parents. Basically we are a group about sponsoring our parents to come to Canada. That is the reason I only talked about—

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

I'm sorry, Felix. I appreciate that fact, and I know you have a great story, and it's an important one, but I didn't want to get--