Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 9th, 2014

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll start our first round of questions with Mr. Opitz.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you all for being here. You're obviously very strong role models and great women in your community, and I've had the pleasure to work with Adeena before in the past as well, so I do welcome you here.

I'll start with saying first of all, I think for most people when they try to come here, we expect them to have good, strong, solid marriages where women do integrate, where they're given that freedom to learn the language, to get a job, to make friends, to create a social group, to work within cultural communities because this is a nation of diasporas. We all have our cultural communities and those are important to us, and that's all well and good. But from my point of view there's absolutely no reason for a man to beat a woman. That's not honourable and when I hear of things like honour killings, there's no honour in that. That's simply criminal. It's a criminal act and that's how I view those things.

Ms. Poregbal, while I hear what you're saying, that some people say had they only known, when you come from another country that's as stark as Iran or Afghanistan and you arrive in Canada and you've been here for a while, you do acclimatize to the differences in the laws. We do have “Discover Canada”, the citizenship guide that lays things out.

What I'm hearing is that there are a lot of informational pathways that we can take to strengthen how women, before they get here, regardless of what the type of arrangement is, but they're coming here to be with a spouse, to join a union, and to enter into a new life.... You have suggested that before they get here information should be provided to them in their language so they have a full understanding, a full briefing of what they're entering into. An earlier witness also suggested they sign a document saying, “I understand”. Would you agree that's a pathway to take, a pathway that would apply to men as well, by the way?

[Poran Poregbal]

Definitely, I agree. I suggest that before they come here, that they not only understand their rights and responsibilities in Canada, but also understand the Canadian values, what those values are about, and asking them “do you agree?” Instead of having a point system for education, we should have a point system for understanding Canadian values, which are about women's rights, equality, human rights, and respect for one another.

I definitely suggest that we take into consideration various education programs beyond what the settlement program is about today. With all due respect to the work that is being done and the interests or attention of the Canadian government, the settlement program has to be evaluated and has to be included with programs that are exploring the mental health challenges that people are coming in with. It's important for both men and women to get into the program—it should be mandatory—and talk about what is expected here that can be done.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I'm going to move on to Adeena because I only have the seven minutes.

Along that line of questioning, how do you work with the community to raise awareness of these issues, what kind of tools do you use, and what would you like to see implemented?

[Adeena Niazi]

Okay.

First, we are focusing on reaching the most isolated women in the community. We don't wait for them to come to us. We try to find out where they are and we send our workers. Sometimes we provide the services in the comfort of their home, just as a first step.

Also, we have special programs for women of different cultures. Native women are different; it's not homogeneous. We have special language programs for women. We use our organization as a bridge to connect the women to the bigger society.

My experience with the women under arranged marriages and who have come to Canada is different from Ms. Laila's. We work with 15,000 clients every year, and we have the statistics. There are some women who didn't know their husbands before coming here, but we cannot generalize about this. This is the same as young women who were brought up in Canada meeting somebody at the university and getting married. Then after marrying, they say, “Oh, if I knew my husband had this nature, I would never have married”. This happens, and we cannot blame only the people from certain communities. It happens everywhere.

We also have special programs for women. When we work with women, we get the entire family involved. It's important to get men involved, and also faith groups, because sometimes they go to the faith groups. In order to prevent violence, you cannot work exclusively with the women, especially with the communities in which I work. We also work with the Iranians, the Middle East, and Afghanis. We do that.

We have parenting programs for them. I don't mean that they don't know parenting, but their style is different, so we do the parenting programs for them. We talk a lot about women's rights, violence against women, how to protect themselves, and the Canadian law. This is how we work with them.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You use role models, as well.

[Adeena Niazi]

Yes, we do.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay.

I want to get Ms. Fakhri in as well.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

You have one minute.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay, I have one minute. I'll just jump into the question then.

When there isn't evidence of abuse, but when women are in the position that they need to talk to somebody, they need to reach out, they need to protect themselves, what kind of evidence can be presented? What kind of evidence is used? Do you have any examples of that sort of thing, or anything you could recommend for new types of evidence or something that's more effective?

[Laila Fakhri]

I'm working as a crisis intervention councillor and dealing with crisis calls. We don't need very strong evidence, as long as the woman is calling. Unfortunately, to them, abuse is only severe physical abuse.

They all say, “Well, I go through difficulties. My husband is not coming home or he is coming home drunk or whatever, but he never hits me. He never beats me”. But when I ask more questions, there are obviously other forms of abuse, which immigrant people do not commonly consider as abuse.

As one of the other speakers mentioned, they don't count the verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and psychological abuse. However, as you ask more questions and they describe their daily lives, you can see that.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Fakhri, and thank you, Mr. Opitz.

Mr. Sandhu, you have the floor.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here this afternoon.

Ms. Poregbal, you pointed out in your testimony that when it comes to reporting violence and abuse to the authorities, in certain cases women are afraid to report it to the police, perhaps because their policing system may not be similar to what it is in our country.

You also talked about fear of CIC. Can you elaborate on why women who are being abused in a violent situation would be fearful of the CIC?

[Poran Poregbal]

Of course.

It's important to understand that the fear of CIC is because of deportation. This is something that the men are already using from day one.

It is very important to realize that there is a power imbalance. Once the woman has said yes to a marriage, they don't actually know their partner. This marriage is usually because someone has told them that this is a good family. I usually ask them what they knew about their husband. The woman says that she didn't know him. She had an aunt or someone who told her that the family is a good family and this man has a good balanced work position in Canada.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Are you suggesting that the two-year conditional residence requirement endangers women in those situations?

[Poran Poregbal]

It definitely endangers them. Also, it's important to understand that many women who do not fear CIC would stay because of the feelings of shame and guilt their families are imposing on them.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Ms. Niazi, would you agree with that, that the two-year conditional requirement endangers women when it comes to...?

[Adeena Niazi]

Certainly, yes, it further traumatizes women. They are very scared because of that.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Would you say that we need to get rid of that requirement?

[Adeena Niazi]

For sure, you should have to get rid of it.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Would you agree with that, Ms. Fakhri, that we need to get rid of that two years?

[Laila Fakhri]

Yes.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

All three witnesses agree.

[Poran Poregbal]

Definitely.

[Adeena Niazi]

I believe that is not the only way to stop fraud.