Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 26th, 2014

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I probably used up my time.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You pretty well have.

Mr. Leung.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for their testimony. It's an area where in a multicultural society when different values, either religious-based or otherwise, are brought in together to a country we have to manage it. Part of managing this diversity or these differences is a sound basis for risk management in the entire immigration system.

In risk managing our immigration system, on one hand we need to rely on people who are doing this in good faith and who are actually bringing in a spouse because there's a genuine need, because there are probably closer customs or religious ties. On the other hand it also opens it up for a certain amount of abuse by those people who want to abuse the system.

What we have thought of in this conditional permanent residence is that in order not to allow people to outright abuse the system we put in the conditional residency to allow some settling-in time, and allow us to examine the case. This is just one of the tools. What I want to hear from you is on the entire immigration process from when the application starts in the home country, to landing, to the monitoring of the marriage to see whether it's bona fide or not over these two years. What other tools do we have as a country to ensure that this is a fair and equitable process?

Let's start with Mr. Mehdizadeh, please.

[Supt Shahin Mehdizadeh]

Thank you.

Being an immigrant myself and going through the process, I can honestly say, with the thousands of immigrants coming to Canada and the few cases that we're dealing with of people who are defrauding the system or using it, bringing big changes is basically punishing the majority for the minority infractors. What I submit is that in relation to the immigration period, the one thing about the process from my perspective as an immigrant that was lacking was actually having some sort of information or even testing before you come to Canada. To become a citizen you have to participate in a test before a judge, etc.—

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Before you apply to be an immigrant, surely, you must have a desire or understanding of this country before you come here. Why would you not consider the United States, South Africa, or India? There must be some understanding and knowledge.

[Supt Shahin Mehdizadeh]

As an immigrant I submit that sometimes people are so desperate they are just going to apply for any place they can get, anything better than their own country. This is evident in our migrant vessels where people get on a ship and they may end up anywhere.

The way I look at it is if you provide them with some knowledge before coming here, at least that's a start. Because we do have testing before they get their citizenship status, before we make them Canadian citizens. Maybe some knowledge before they come here might be useful to provide them at least with what Canada is all about.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Ms. Raza, perhaps you can share with us your—

[Raheel Raza]

I agree with what Shahin is saying about this information. This is not something new, we've been lobbying for this for many years, very clear information about what Canada is, the legal system, laws, rights, responsibilities. Responsibility is very important too.

I would like to focus for a moment and mention to you that, again, I speak about third world countries, South Asia, where there are corrupt immigration officials who are selling this country to people without telling them what they're actually coming to. These are people who are doing the buying and selling of people. These are the ones who are arranging these paper marriages. There has to be a look into this part of the system as well, not everything is as simple as an application. We came on the regular system, but there are people who have sold their homes, who have become destitute just to come to Canada because a corrupt immigration official—

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Are you referring to a Canadian immigration official in a foreign country or local hires?

[Raheel Raza]

There are two kinds. There are people who have Canadian citizenship, but they then go back to these home countries and become experts in Canadian immigration—not accredited, not legal, but they do this—and there are hundreds of them. They set up corner shops.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

They need to be licensed now.

[Raheel Raza]

They need to be licensed.

I come from Pakistan, where I have seen signs on roadside shacks saying, “Come to Canada”. One of the biggest cracks in the system, in my opinion, are these people who have set up shop. They don't paint a very clean picture. Of course, for money you can buy a passport and you can get paper marriages. This is something that definitely needs to be looked at as well, the back road way of coming into Canada.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

I also wish to hear from Ms. Aref.

Ms. Aref, could you give your comment, please?

[Makai Aref]

Yes, my assistant will explain it to you.

[Patmeena Sabit]

I think some very valid, relevant points have been made about the application process in third world countries, but I think what we wanted to talk about was the monitoring here. One of the most important things, in terms of resources or what can be provided from the Canadian side here, would be information in terms of the rights that people have once they are here. That might be during the two-year conditional or it might be after. What we see a lot over and over is that women who are sponsored—and not just women, I think that extends to men, too—are so unaware of what their rights are here, even though they're not citizens. They are unaware of what their legal rights are and what recourse they have, for example, once the marriage does fall apart. I think that's really important. That could be information that's provided before they get to Canada, but I think it can be provided here as well—that would be very important—to let them know that they do have rights.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Sabit.

Ms. Sitsabaiesan.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses here today.

I want to start with Mr. Mehdizadeh.

You mentioned that within the RCMP you would like to see more training. You said for all of our police forces to be well versed in all of the different cultural sensitivity needs would be difficult—I understand—and we can get there, just not overnight. That was in a nutshell what you said in that training piece.

I want to translate that training need. The training needs to be improved so that individuals who are dealing with victims or the women who arrive have that cultural sensitivity or awareness. Do you think this training should be provided for CIC staff, as well as CBSA agents, who might be meeting these women at the airports when they arrive?

[Supt Shahin Mehdizadeh]

As I mentioned in my presentation, there are many different partners who can actually make it better for everyone's security: a school teacher or even the counsellors at the school. Absolutely, there's training that needs to be done in relation to how to approach certain topics in relation to certain immigrant groups in Canada, and how to communicate that. Even regarding the simple use of translators, who do you use for a translator? There are so many different factors that can actually add to the way we can get the right information to protect them.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Right.

When we had CIC officials here, they said that this training is already provided and that they don't really need more training.

I don't know, maybe Ms. Aref, or your assistant, or Ms. Raza, or yourself, from what you're seeing in the communities, do you find that the sensitivity is there with the agents that these women are dealing with or that they really need more?

[Makai Aref]

Okay. Can my assistant answer you?

[Patmeena Sabit]

One of the biggest issues I think is the issue of women or these spouses actually being able to approach them at all. That might have something to do with this idea that the sensitivity or just the cultural knowledge isn't there in terms of how to deal with these women once they are abused or they have reached out for help. But I think what we found from our end was that one of the issues is just making them aware of the idea that they can reach out, and also breaking down that taboo, where they feel like there is that possibility.

[Raheel Raza]

I would add that obviously the Canadian demographics have changed drastically in the last two decades. It is important for the training for front-line workers...definitely for that continuation of their training. The issues that we are talking about, like forced marriage, proxy marriage, honour violence, were not things that were here 30 years ago, let's say. It's keeping up with the changing demographics, the face of Canada, and the issues as they are taking place. Now, I will quickly mention that the forced marriage unit in England has trained immigration officials to look out for these signs.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Sorry, I just have one more minute left. That's why I'm trying to move on.

I want to talk about the isolation of the new women who come into the country. A lot of our witnesses have spoken of this, because these women don't have access to language. One of you, I don't remember which one, mentioned that they don't necessarily have fluency in English or French when they come into this country as a spouse. Because they don't have the language training or skills to be able to enter the job market, they are usually forced into isolation within the home or within the small family unit. There have been other witnesses who have suggested mandatory language training or skills development for these people who come here as spouses.

What are your suggestions on that, Mrs. Aref or Ms. Sabit?

[Makai Aref]

My assistant will explain to you. Why did we open that centre? The centre absolutely services those women who are coming without a family, who are single. They have very big problems.

But Patmeena will explain this more.

[Patmeena Sabit]

I think the language issue that we brought up was the French and English. I think that mandatory...relates back to one of the questions that one of the committee members asked in terms of what could be done during this process. I think that the mandatory languages or skills could be applied before they arrive in Canada, but it is definitely something that is necessary before or after. It obviously contributes not only to isolation but also to their inability to reach out for help if they should need it.