Evidence of meeting #3 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sarah Anson-Cartwright  Director, Skills Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Gordon Griffith  Director, Education, Engineers Canada
Richard Kurland  Policy Analyst and Lawyer, As an Individual
Michael Kydd  President, Merit Nova Scotia

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe

I declare the third meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration in order.

Dear colleagues,

Thank you very much for being here with us today.

Three groups of witnesses will appear before us today in our study of a Second Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 21, 2013 and other measures.

In our first group of witnesses, we will hear from the Hon. Chris Alexander, M.P. and Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. The minister will have 10 minutes to make his opening remarks. Following his remarks, we will proceed with a question period.

Thank you, Minister, for accepting our invitation. You have the floor.

11:05 a.m.

Ajax—Pickering Ontario

Conservative

Chris Alexander ConservativeMinister of Citizenship and Immigration

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to my colleagues for inviting me here today to speak about two initiatives that are very important to my department. The first concerns citizenship, in particular passports, and the second concerns our immigration programs, of which we are all very proud.

I will make a few opening remarks about these two subjects. I am also open to answering your questions.

Before l begin, let me say what a pleasure it is to be in front of your committee for the first time. It contains so many friends and colleagues who I know are as committed as I am, and as we are in the department, to making a success of our citizenship and immigration programs. I look forward to all of the opportunities we'll have down the road to continue this discussion and deepen it.

The transformational change that we are undertaking, particularly in our immigration programs, is very much at the heart of what I have been invited to discuss with you today.

This is not just a side issue we're discussing today. It's something that goes to the heart of the reforms we have been bringing forward for several years now. We expect these reforms to culminate in a major watershed for Canada's immigration programs—the launch of the expression of interest, or EOI, system at the beginning of 2015.

Bill C-4 is the legislative expression of our commitment to foster prosperity and opportunity for Canadians. This is also true of the portions of the bill that pertain to the immigration system.

There is a direct link, and I think we see that link more and more clearly as the days pass between our economic success and the success of our immigration system, a system we want to be free of fraud, but also to be fast, fair, and flexible. We want to target the best and the brightest around the world, many of whom we know are interested in coming to Canada.

The rest of the world, fortunately, is enjoying recovery at one pace or another. Canada in many ways continues to lead the field, but we still have a genuine opportunity to build on our ingenuity, our immense natural wealth, our values and stability, and to use the immigration system to leverage that potential even more.

Let's be clear. The demographic pressures, the skills deficit we see in a number of areas, mean that we are relying on immigration now more than ever just to meet the current needs of the Canadian economy, never mind the future needs. There was a time when it was 20% or 30% of our labour market needs that we were meeting with our annual immigration. Now some studies are saying it's already 65% and perhaps climbing to 75%. In other words, the job, the skills deficit, the inability to find the right skilled people to fill jobs across the country, in almost every region of the country, would be even more acute if it weren't for our economic immigration.

Now let me give you a little context before commenting on EOI directly. We continue to tackle backlogs. We realize that eliminating backlogs—and that is our goal—is a prerequisite for full implementation of EOI. If we hadn't taken the actions we've taken with regard to the federal skilled worker program, and other categories, our backlogs would have grown to over 1.7 million this year and to 2.3 million in 2015.

Instead, and I know we've had exchanges on this question before, the backlogs are down to 600,000 this year, and are projected to go down to 400,000 in 2015 at the current pace. There may be other measures we can take to eliminate backlogs even faster, and I look forward to discussing some of them with you.

In the FSW, or federal skilled worker, program, if we had followed the old path—let's be honest: the pre-2006 path—the backlog would be 1 million with 10-year wait times in that program alone, growing to 2.5 million in 2015 with a 15-year wait time. Instead, the backlog is under 100,000 this year, with only a one-year wait time on average, and is estimated to go down to 10,000 in 2015. We're driving towards a just-in-time system. We're driving towards a transformation that will link our immigration programs much more closely to the changing needs of the Canadian economy and labour market.

That is why this new recruitment model, highlighted and carried forward in important ways in the current BIA bill, is so important. It will select immigrants based on the skills Canadian employers need. It's called expression of interest. The name is not exactly catchy, we agree. It has been inherited from other countries, such as Australia and New Zealand, which launched the thinking in this regard. I welcome the suggestions of the committee about how we relabel, reconsecrate, or rebrand this program in a way that expresses all the potential we see in it.

The intent of this system as a job market recruitment model is already clear, and its goal is vitally important. It's a new way of managing immigration applications that will create a pool of skilled workers to be matched with employers and fast-tracked through the system. Our goal is to have this system in place by New Year's Day 2015, just over a year from now.

The most important part of this is that only the top-ranking candidates in the pool, who are identified as possible candidates by provinces, territories, employers and the federal government, would receive invitations to apply for permanent residence. There are many people who will express their interest. However, only those who are needed by employers, territories, provinces, and the federal government will be invited to apply, and the resources made available to handle these applications will correspond to the number of invitations sent out each year.

Among the many benefits of this new system is that it's faster. We are aiming to see skilled newcomers arrive here in months rather than years.

It's more effective. As I said, we will invite only the most highly qualified candidates from the pool rather than simply those who apply first, and as the system becomes known, we expect the quality of people in the pool to go up. Not everyone around the world knows how the new point system for our federal skilled worker program works.

It is very competitive and very attractive, especially, I think, for English or French speakers around the world. EOI is going to help us publicize that opportunity to a larger audience than ever before. It's also going to be more responsive to the changing labour market needs of employers. Over time, they are likely to be more skilled applicants with valid job offers and a clearer shared understanding of how their credentials translate into a Canadian context.

Before my time runs out, I would like to make a few brief comments on Bill C-4 and the amendments related to the transfer in responsibility for Passport Canada to Citizenship and Immigration Canada. This transfer came into effect earlier this year, two weeks after I arrived at the Department of Citizenship and Immigration.

Among many benefits, this transfer makes the passport program more efficient and cost-effective. As you know, CIC is responsible for determining Canadian citizenship for all people subject to the Citizenship Act. Only Canadian citizens are eligible to apply for a Canadian passport, so integrating the passport program into Citizenship and Immigration Canada is a natural fit.

In fact, Chair, I would say that a Canadian passport is one of the most tangible and prominent symbols of Canadian citizenship. It's an internationally recognized symbol.

We have a new, secure, 10-year electronic passport—the e-passport—that has been more popular than any previous product, with a million of them issued in a question of months, which shows that Canadians are travelling, Canadians want secure documents, and Canadians want them for the longer term. It's also more cost-effective to buy a 10-year document.

So the measures contained in Bill C-4 are there to complete the transfer of the Passport Office to Citizenship and Immigration, to make sure that it is more responsive than ever to Canadians' needs, so that we can deliver passports by as many channels as possible—mail, Service Canada, passport offices, online applications. All of that success is reflected in the very strong statistics showing the growth in the demand for the Canadian passport, which I think in recent years has gone beyond anything we dared to expect 10 or 20 years ago.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am ready to answer questions from members of the committee.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe

I would like to thank the Hon. Chris Alexander for his presentation.

I will give the floor to Mr. Lauzon for seven minutes.

November 19th, 2013 / 11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will share my time with Mr. Leung.

I would like to welcome the minister to the committee.

Minister, in your opening remarks you mentioned that 65% to 75% of our labour market needs for workers is coming from immigration and it's going to go even higher. I guess what we're saying here is that it's really critical that we recruit the best and the brightest.

My question is, how is this new recruitment system going to help us recruit the best and the brightest economic class immigrants that Canada can possibly get? As we know, it's very competitive on the world scene. How are we going to get the advantage through this new system?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

Thanks for the great question, Guy. It's always a bit intimidating to have the first question come from your caucus, Chair, so if I don't answer it correctly, I expect to be disciplined behind closed doors on Wednesday.

11:15 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

The advantages are potentially huge. Let me be clear: it's a dramatic change. It has required several phases of legislative change. There will be more policies and regulations, and perhaps even more legislation we need to change before we have the ground fully set for EOI, but the main advantage that I see is that it really allows employers to benefit from direct involvement in our flagship economic immigration programs.

When we had a backlog of six, seven, going on nine or ten years for the federal skilled worker program, it was basically irrelevant to the needs of Canadian employers. They could see someone abroad they needed, but they weren't going to turn to the federal skilled worker program because what employer is willing to wait five or ten years for someone to come through the program? Even now, with a one-year wait time, it's not ideal. Most employers aren't willing to wait that long.

Under the expression of interest system, which will govern the federal skilled worker program and other programs, the time will be down to six months, and we hope to be able to go even lower in due course. That means employers will be able to look not only to temporary foreign workers, not only to the provincial nominee program, which has actually been#quite nimble and quite fast in some provinces on behalf of employers, but to our flagship economic programs.

Why would we not want employers, using their industry associations, using all the fora we have for exchanging information with them, to help us recruit not only the best and the brightest, but the people with the skills we need? It's an objective fact that there are not enough welders in Canada. We have all heard it. The welders associations of Canada are quite happy to help us recruit abroad because they know that even with their best efforts to train more young men and women in Canada, they won't have enough to meet the needs of the national shipbuilding program, the energy sector, the mining sector, and so forth.

These reforms to EOI, especially as they relate to the federal skilled worker program, will put these programs much more at their service, at the service of the Canadian economy, not only large employers but potentially medium and small ones as well.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Super. You don't have to worry about caucus tomorrow.

Mr. Leung.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

Minister, it's a pleasure to have you here.

I'll follow on the question posed by my colleague. Over the weekend, I visited a company in Willowdale. Willowdale is one of the ridings with 60% of residents born outside Canada, and probably 50% or more are visible minorities. The company I visited is a company invested in by Indonesian and Chinese immigrants, entrepreneurs, but they are having a very difficult time finding the level of PhD students to be in the semiconductor design business. Often engineers who do arrive express to us their frustration in having a mismatch between the length of time it takes to immigrate and the length of time it takes to find the right job.

Perhaps you can share with us, based on your consultation with various ethnic communities, how this new expression of interest recruitment program would bridge that gap faster. As you know, in the semiconductor business you really have a life cycle of only one year from invention to production. Speed is what is needed in our fast-moving hi-tech economy.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

Thanks for the question. It's great to have such a strong team of parliamentary secretaries on this committee and in service of this portfolio. Thanks for all your work across the board.

We all hear from immigrants who are not able to work, for one reason or another, in their chosen fields, in their fields of qualification, who were often not told when they came to Canada in the 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s what would be required to qualify in their field.

So we're really focusing on two major changes, and they're not fully implemented, so these will be recurring subjects I think for us in this committee to resolve this issue.

First is foreign credentials recognition, and not just Canada's recognition of the credentials that other people have, but a clear signal to any candidate for immigration, as soon as they express interest in the system in coming to Canada, that this is what they will need to do to be able to work in their field in Canada. This is the organization that will qualify them. This is the course they will need to requalify, and it will be longer, shorter, depending on the profession.

We know we have challenges in Canada. The throne speech talks about not just recognition of credentials from outside of Canada, but recognition of credentials within Canada, where we all know it can be complicated to move from province to province or territory to territory.

Secondly, it is vitally important that we reduce the waiting time for applicants. In these technology industries where specialized needs are changing month by month, a six-month waiting time is much better than a year or two years or three years. It will allow us to recruit people whose skills are in demand around the world but who right now aren't necessarily attracted to coming as immigrants to Canada because our program is not as fast and flexible as we need it to be.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe

Thank you, Mr. Leung. Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.

Now we turn to Mr. Cash for seven minutes.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Minister. I have a bunch of questions, so forgive me if I appear or seem to be.... I don't mean to be rude; I just want to get through the list.

On what date will the criteria for applications and invitations to the EOI stream be made public?

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

You've seen some of the criteria already reflected in legislation that has been before the House and in this current legislation. Keep in mind that EOI is not an immigration program; it is a framework for the program that we already have and potentially for programs that we will have.

The criteria for the federal skilled worker program, the point system, changed earlier this year. It came into effect in May. It's still too early to tell.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

Minister, for the criteria for this stream, the EOI stream, do you have a date when they will be made public? I understand there are other streams and there are other programs, but for this stream.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

The criteria are already clear from legislation in this year's BIA and from previous rounds of legislation, but keep in mind, EOI is not a stream; it's a framework for our economic immigration. There are streams within the programs that will be governed by EOI, but what does the EOI change? There will be two phases now to immigration under each of those programs. One is the invitation phase, where people express interest and then are ranked according to the criteria of the different programs.

If you want me to go through the criteria for the federal skilled worker program, the federal skilled trades program, the provincial nominee program, the investor business program, the start-up visa, I can do that, but it would take quite a while.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

Will any existing or new immigration streams operate under EOI other than the ones already mentioned—Canadian experience class, federal skilled workers, and federal skilled trades? Will there be other, existing streams, and do you intend on creating new ones?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

We have the ability as a government to create new streams; the start-up visa for entrepreneurs, which was brought into being only in April, is one. We haven't seen the first people come through it, but it is a recent initiative. The federal skilled trades program was only announced in January. We saw the first people come through it in August, and, yes, there is an ability to propose, agree, discuss with you new immigration programs that would be governed by EOI and that would benefit from the advantages that EOI brings.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

Who will inform the minister's decision on who can apply and to whom an invitation will be extended? I'm thinking here about the provinces, about employers. You've referenced employers already, but who is informing these decisions?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

The invitation to apply will come from the Government of Canada; it's our program, but we have partners, we have stakeholders that we want to be part of that decision and trigger that invitation. That is why, as we have moved toward the EOI, we've had long and very substantive consultations with all the provinces and territories. They're all interested, they're all willing to try EOI, to be part of EOI, and I think many of them see it in as positive a light as we do.

As you've probably seen from the reports online and from discussions in this committee, we had intensive consultations with employers, but we have more of those to do to come to an agreement as to how we interface with them in the case of EOI. There are privacy considerations. We don't want to violate our obligations. We've included the Privacy Commissioner in our discussions at every stage to ensure we protect the information that is part of the expression of interest system. But at the same time, we want companies to be able to give us the labour market signals that are absolutely crucial for this to be able to work. Even the provinces will not play much of a role in the EOI without input from employers.

So getting that interface right with employers is absolutely crucial. We know it will be there. As you've seen from our reports, we have the general shape of how it's going to happen, but we have a lot of work to do in 2014 to articulate the details of how that interface will work.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

What checks will be in place in this new system to ensure that Canadian residents will have the first opportunity at jobs in the Canadian market?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

Everything we've done this year with regard to reforms to the labour market opinion system, continuing reforms both in my department and in the Department of Employment and Social Development, and reforms to the employment insurance system has been focused on ensuring that Canadians who are looking for a job are aware of the available jobs and that they absolutely have first crack at every job. Any employer who is looking to a foreign labour market without looking to the Canadian labour market is making a very serious mistake.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

Thank you.

Will the EOI program interact with the existing point system, and if so, how?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

Yes, because each immigration program has a point system associated with it, and we will carry many of these programs into 2015. You've seen the skilled workers one change.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

So workers coming in through the EOI will be subject to the same point criteria.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

Exactly. Someone expresses interest, they are ranked in the pool of possible candidates according to the point system of the different programs, and then on the basis of government and private sector needs we identify in Canada, the right number is invited to apply. They will be the ones who have the most points under each program.