Industry Committee on March 3rd, 2014

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

On the weekend I was speaking about this industry with someone who had worked in it for a short time, thought of pursuing a career, but quickly realized that you work 80 to 100 hours a week, and for a very long time, to develop the product. Usually at the time of completion you're dismissed; you're let go. There's a huge number of young people who get into it but don't stay in it because there's little pay and absolutely no benefits.

As well, our whole acting industry is continually under a lot of pressure to produce and struggle with trying to earn a decent income and some sort of recognition, which is where income averaging comes out...but that was specifically to that industry.

[Deirdre Ayre]

There certainly was a time before I was involved in the industry when there were stories of people working those types of hours. Certainly that's not the case with our company. We would not want to burn out our employees. We operate under the labour standards acts in the provinces in which we operate, so obviously, we wouldn't and couldn't do that.

As well, we do offer full health benefits. We do those things. Your friend obviously had a different experience, but I don't think you'd find that any of our employees would feel that way.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Ms. Sgro.

Madam Gallant, you have eight minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Holder.

Mr. Benoit, you mentioned training programs and how important it was to have training programs at different levels. That's the purview of the provinces. You also mentioned internships. There are a number of federal internships available, partnering with business, colleges, and universities.

Have you looked into these, and if you have, what are the obstacles in being able to apply those internships to this industry?

[Jocelyn Benoit]

As I mentioned, the students coming out of those institutions are not skilled employees, in the sense that they do not have all the skills they need. A company like Ubisoft, for example, with 3,000 employees, can recruit some interns and take care of them. But companies that are a little smaller do not have the time or the inclination to look after a group of interns. That is one of the factors that make it difficult for graduates to get internship positions, unlike other areas like engineering. My comments here apply only to 3D animation.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

We have a proposed Canada job grant that is in its final stages of perfection, I guess. With that, do you think any of these smaller organizations would be willing to provide help financially, either with cash or through donations of in-kind services, towards having one of these students finish this extra technical training?

[Jocelyn Benoit]

I must admit that it is difficult for me to tell which incentives companies would like in order to be able to take in more interns. Personally, I just know that it is quite difficult to find positions in companies, even for unpaid internships. I am not sure that it is just a question of salary. It is more a question of the time needed to train them.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Have you thought about a model for an internship, either a financial or a training model that could be looked at for implementation?

[Jocelyn Benoit]

Actually, in the last few years, Ubisoft has started a useful initiative. They started an interuniversity competition in which a number of universities in Quebec, and elsewhere in Canada, can take part. Each university submits a prototype of a game, or an original concept. One concept is chosen and a team or 40 or 50 people is formed. Then a game is produced on that university campus. The mentorship comes first from professors and then from Ubisoft staff.

I believe that Ubisoft has created a wonderful formula that creates 40 or 50 internship opportunities per year. I see it as a new form of internship that can work well.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Out of that project, was the company able to find employees?

[Jocelyn Benoit]

Yes. Having those interns right under their eyes and being able to watch them work for three or four months, in a summer school situation, allows the employer to take a better look at various aspects. They can look, not only at the interns’ technical skills and artistic sides, but also at their collaboration skills, their people skills, the way in which they work as part of a team and communicate with others. Those are important attributes for employees to have.

Just take a quick look at the statistics. From the 40 people at the most recent summer school, I think that Ubisoft kept between 20 and 30. I do not presume to speak for them but I think that it was seen as a good model for retaining new employees.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I'll share the rest of my time with Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to stay, Monsieur Benoit, on the issue of the internships and the model in your mind. What I'm thinking of is this. You made reference to engineers as being a model, but I can say that in Canada if you think that's a model, it is not at all.

Surely there will be some firms, larger firms and smaller firms, which bring on apprentices in various trades, by the way, and not just engineers. What happens as a result, particularly with smaller firms, is that the big companies just scalp them. They just take them up. Ms. Ayre made that comment before about temporary foreign workers who come in, get their papers, and then, all of a sudden, are gone to the big city.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with St. John's, Newfoundland, I should tell you, if you weren't sure.

[Deirdre Ayre]

That's what I keep saying.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

My point is this. I'm not sure, when Ms. Gallant asked if there was a model, whether there truly is a model that you could look at to say that kind of an internship program would work. I guess you'd go to the European model in trades. Everybody pays a fee or takes a mandatory apprentice or intern, depending on size, but that's not the Canadian model.

I'm not sure there is one that works. If you had something that you thought was reasonable, I know this committee would love to hear from you.

[Jocelyn Benoit]

I could mention the Quebec universities, such as the École de technologie supérieure and the University of Sherbrooke, which has been offering a co-op program for 10 years or so. The program requires students to do three paid internships in business. The École de technologie supérieur and the University of Sherbrooke have both proved that it can be a good model for the businesses and for the students, for whom the placement rate is very good.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

With the importance of the industry, I think what we're hearing certainly from past testimony and even today is the importance of the actors, and I don't mean ACTRA actors necessarily, although it could certainly include them. What I'm trying to understand is how important it is in la belle province and why it isn't being done across the country. I think this is an up-and-coming growth industry. I could imagine that UBC, and Western in my great city, and right across the country, Charlottetown, they would all want to do this program. Why do you think that's not happening?

[Jocelyn Benoit]

Unfortunately, I have no answer to that question. The video game industry is still a little young. It is a new area that does not instinctively seek out research and development or interns at universities, as the telecommunications sector does. Motorola, for example, has a corporate philosophy and culture that motivates it to recruit many more interns.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you.

It's interesting. I love the witnesses today because you get a bit of push-back, back and forth, and that makes it interesting. Ms. Stiles, I was going to push-back a bit on you, gently. We already have a system, I think, that takes care of low years when actors and programmers and digital-type folks make less, and years when they make more. It's called the Income Tax Act.

Am I done, sir?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You're done, and I was going to say that Ms. Stiles will probably have to answer your question on somebody else's round.

Mr. Côté, you have eight minutes.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My first question goes to Mr. Benoit.

I would like to go back to the very interesting perspective you presented. You said that the dynamics of your area tend to focus on the short term and that this could become a concern for the future.

Do you think that the federal government has a role to play, that it could provide a longer-term focus that could guarantee the development and allow companies to remain competitive?

[Jocelyn Benoit]

I think that the federal government could play a role through research funding. A good part of the growth comes from the research and development done in Canadian universities. In other cultures or other areas, this is bred in the bone. For example, Autodesk has partnerships with various Montreal and Canadian universities. With video games, there is a little less of that instinct. One of the reasons for that fact is that video games are not one single area. They involve a lot of things. Of course, grants are awarded for programming and for software engineering, which are recognized and defined components. But it would be in everyone's interests to set aside more money for research and development in areas like design, visuals and 3D animation.

Our companies want to grow, but at the moment, they are assuming most of the risk. When there is a relationship between a university and a company, the university assumes a large part of the risk. As a result, the university provides the research and the company develops it. By providing more funding, or by establishing research funds specifically for video games, not just in programming or in artificial intelligence, but in other areas such as design and visuals, companies could derive a long-term benefit from the research done in our universities. First, there would be the results of our research and second, there would be the training of highly skilled people at master's and doctoral level.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Perhaps I did not follow your testimony and your answers very well, but last week, witnesses stated that the great staffing need was in administration and upper management. Often, they have to look overseas to find people with project management skills.

Do you develop those kinds of skills? Do you foresee doing so?

[Jocelyn Benoit]

You mean skills in managing projects?

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes.