Industry Committee on March 24th, 2014

[Martin Carrier]

Back to my earlier point, lots of people have atypical backgrounds in games. I was a political science and then a business graduate from McGill, went into aerospace, and then this new company called Ubisoft came to town in 1997 and started hiring like crazy. I figured that maybe I had a shot. I was actually hired as their first communications and PR person.

Over a couple of years I parlayed that into evolving into the games industry, setting up as a consultant, and then I enticed Warner Bros. to set up shop.

That's sort of my background, and I think it just exemplifies the diverse nature of the industry.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

It's clear that there are a lot of different skill sets. I'm sure many of our kids, specifically our sons, spend a huge amount of time on video games. I haven't quite seen it in females as much, but certainly for those of us who have sons, as Ms. Nash mentioned, we know they're very active in it. There is no question about that. That's why I was interested in finding out where your background was and how you flowed right into that.

I want to ask you this particularly, Mr. Carrier. Every one of the witnesses we've had has mentioned the issue of temporary foreign workers and the challenge of getting people over here. But my concern is, what level of expertise do they have that is so superior that we are just now, through the work of Mr. Smith and the universities, starting to raise the level of our game here? What level of expertise do they have that is so much further ahead of what we can get here in Canada?

[Martin Carrier]

I think it's the level of expertise and rarity, also. This is a fairly young industry, so we don't have many people who are, for example, the creative director type. There are not that many of these guys out there who have created high-level games who we could hand a Batman franchise, for example, that they would do.

It's expertise and it's also the fact that they are few and far between. For example, for our Chima online game with Lego,we had to get a network programmer from Korea where obviously connected experiences are very much advanced. We needed that one expert. There was one guy, almost in the world, who could do what we wanted because he had the experience in that field.

These are very targeted individuals, and once we do find them, we want to get them in as fast as we can.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Schmalz, would you like to comment on that issue of how you have managed in 21 years? And congratulations, by the way, on what is appearing as a new industry for everyone else.

[Michael Schmalz]

Thank you very much.

We're not quite to the point where we're looking for those one or two people; we are looking for general skill sets. The problem with the video game industry, in terms of programming, is that we're looking for people with programming languages that are a little bit off the beaten path from what normal university programs will teach. In general we're looking for people who have studied languages like C++ and would have gone to university with a view to eventually getting into the game industry. And then again, we're looking for people who are at the top of their class, so that we can compete internationally. So we're looking for people from among a relatively small group.

It's the same with some of the other disciplines that we have, such as art and design. We're finding, as I said, that we're getting great entry-level people. Whereas in the 1980s everyone wanted to become doctors and lawyers, now it really does seem that all of the smartest people want to be somewhere in digital media. So we're getting great smart people at the entry level, but we find that we're now having to repatriate a lot of ex-Canadians, bring back to Canada people who have gone to companies such as ILM or Pixar or Electronic Arts in the United States. We have to bring them back, plus we have to look for that senior talent, people who have experience at the senior levels, because it's very difficult to get a network programmer who's very smart and has 15 years of experience and bring him into an entirely new industry such as video games and expect that person to perform. That creates a relatively small pool of potential candidates for these senior roles that we need to fill.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Smith, I would expect that at the completion of this meeting today you will have learned a lot—again, from a different angle on the industry—as you're planning your program, to try to get that expertise and provide those opportunities for our many Canadians who clearly have an interest in this.

In terms of funding and the future, how do you see that unfolding with the partnership you currently have?

[Dr. Richard Smith]

We have a stable financial model for our school. We have an endowment that helps support the school, and the tuition carries the remainder of the burden. Our tuition is probably too high. Interestingly, it's regarded as a reasonable price or a good price by Americans, Europeans, and Asians; Canadians think it's way too expensive. They're used to paying 30 or 40 cents on the dollar for their education, and they kind of choke on the full price. But that's the nature of our program. We're not eligible for NSERC scholarships and things like that.

But I'm quite excited—apart from the topic of video games—to be running a graduate program that supports itself, that breaks even every year. I think that's a remarkable model for education in Canada, and I anticipate...and seek to move forward. It gives us some independence. It gives us the ability to move in new directions; we don't have to wait for the funding to appear. So I'm not too worried about the funding. Of course, it's always exciting to have more, but I think that the better issue is how we keep ahead of a very dynamic and fast-changing industry.

You'd be surprised actually, you were making reference to the—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Smith. I'm sorry, that's all the time we have.

Now on to Madam Gallant, for seven minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, to Mr. Carrier, what types of federal government policies attract talent from other countries or help you to attract talented people from other countries? Is it low taxes? Are there some other aspects that provide something of an incentive when compared with where they're coming from?

[Martin Carrier]

I think our ability in a sense to guarantee...or at least help in getting people moving rather quickly is certainly key. Coming to Canada, people often know to expect sometimes higher taxes than they have where they come from, and often individuals are willing to forego that just to be able to have the opportunity to work on big projects. So often time is of the essence, and that's why for us the ability to get work permits and get people in is key.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

You mentioned work permits, and I'd like to raise the issue of the labour market opinion. How long does it take for you to get through that process?

[Martin Carrier]

I couldn't tell you exactly the number of weeks right now. I know it's gotten somewhat better, but I'd have to check with my HR folks. I don't remember the exact amount of time.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Has that been the difference between your getting the right person at the right time for the right job, or not?

[Martin Carrier]

Sometimes it has. Often, it becomes a little more difficult to convince people to hold on to our offer, because, obviously, that gives more time for either their current employer to up the stakes or for someone else to swoop in where they are already.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

So it's a bidding war as well, perhaps even within Canada, for the same person?

[Martin Carrier]

Yes, it is.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

Once the person is here, what can the federal government do to create the conditions to help you retain that employee?

[Martin Carrier]

I remember, I think at some point before, there were some income tax holidays, where if people qualified under a certain researcher level, or something like that.... That's often very important—it's not something that lasts ten years in time, but maybe one or two years—and it becomes very much an incentive for people to make the jump over.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Insofar as internship programs funded through NSERC or other entities go, are you able to take advantage of those?

[Martin Carrier]

We mostly go through universities for our internship programs, so that's not something we've touched upon just yet. But we're also a younger studio, so we started our internships about 18 months ago.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Are these interns paid?

[Martin Carrier]

Yes, they are.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay, thank you.

Dr. Smith, you mentioned three courses. Can you tell me with respect to the projects that your students undertake, whether there is funding from the company? Or is that a combination of the tuition and the partnership with whichever company is providing the project?

[Dr. Richard Smith]

The projects are paid and we have in-kind as well as a cash contribution that the industry actually pays, which helps cover the cost of the space and the instructors, and that sort of thing, and the equipment that the students might need. I regard this as a major indicator of industry support that the industry actually pays us to deliver a project for them.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Going back to costs, with tuition, is the 30 some-odd thousand dollars that you mentioned per year or for the entire program?