Evidence of meeting #21 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was public.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bertha Oliva  General Coodinator, Committee of Relatives of the Detained and Disappeared in Honduras

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Honourable members, welcome to this meeting of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Today is April 8, 2014, and this is the subcommittee's 21st meeting.

Before turning to the subject matter that will be occupying us today and to our witness, I'm going to take care of an administrative matter. Our witness right now is having technicalities with the three language translation system set up for today. So while that's being attended to I'll just ask Mr. Benskin to deal with the matter that he has sought, and I believe achieved, consensus on.

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am seeking consensus from the committee to enter into a study on the aftermath of the Rwandan crisis in terms of looking at the effect on families now that we're 20 years later. There are children who were born of this conflict, sexual violence against women in a conflict situation, and these children are now in their twenties. There is a distinct and very clear effect that this has had on their community and I think it behooves us to look at this especially in companionship to the study we are doing on sexual violence in conflict situations. There was a series of articles in the Montreal Gazette and La Presse last weekend, which interviewed many of these women and these families and the profound effect of this type of event can be seen in tangible form. I think it's something we could definitely learn from.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

We have consensus to look at that, I assume?

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Mr. Chair, just because we're trying to do it fast and we obviously don't need to distribute the motion, but just so that we're agreed it was the motion that was submitted to the Chair?

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

There is a motion, that's what we're agreeing to.

I agree, I was going to say I don't want to debate the motion, I wanted to get agreement on it.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Yes.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Let's go to our witness for the day. We are continuing to look at the human rights situation in Honduras. With us today as a witness is Bertha Oliva who is the coordinator of the Committee of Relatives of the Detained and Disappeared in Honduras. I'm just going to confirm with her that she is getting a translation.

Excellent. If at any time you have a problem with the translation, just let us know.

I would like to invite you, Ms. Oliva, to begin your testimony. Normally we ask people to give a 10-minute presentation, but that's only a guideline. Once you're finished we will ask each of the members of the committee to pose questions to you. How much time each of them has is determined by how much time your presentation took and how much time we have left.

1:05 p.m.

Bertha Oliva General Coodinator, Committee of Relatives of the Detained and Disappeared in Honduras

Thank you very much for allowing me to be here with you to talk about the human rights situation in my country, Honduras. My name is Bertha Oliva, and I represent the committee of family members of the detained and disappeared, COFADEH, which is an organization that has been around for 30 years.

Right now, unfortunately, Honduras is the most violent country in Latin America. I am saying this with concern.

Up until December 2013, 79 murders for every 100,000 inhabitants was the tally. That means that 19 people were murdered daily. In the first few months of 2014, there has been a total of 18 massacres in which at least three people have died in each massacre. This, to us, is an epidemic. Logically, our greatest concern is that there is a trend toward privatizing public security. The privatization of public security without sufficient control by the state does not in any way improve the situation.

There is also a lack of interest in creating a more professional police force, and what we can see on the streets of our country and in our country as a whole is the military working on civilian security. That is very worrisome. That makes Honduras a completely militarized country, just like in the olden days in the 1980s, for example, when COFADEH was born.

There were seven armies at the time, six of which were not Honduran. That is what led to the severe human rights violations, with an outcome of over 200 disappeared persons recognized by the state of Honduras at the time. But with regard to disappearances, we know the numbers were higher than 200.

That is what is happening in Honduras, and we have seen a trend that has gone from selective killings to massacres. There's been a shift from public persecution to persecution in prisons. Last year, I'm sure that you know, there was an incident in a prison. There was a fire in which 376 people were burned.

So far the Honduran state has done nothing to investigate the causes for that fire in the prison or to make reparations. More and more, we see the privatization of public security with private security firms. There are from 75,000 to 120,000 private security guards, and this is worrisome for us because it is an army with very little control on the part of the Honduran state. This private security force has been responsible for horrible human rights violations in the Bajo Aguán region. Over 100 peasants have been murdered in recent times and there has been no investigation to find those who are guilty.

In that same region once again we see that there have been forced disappearances of people, and COFADEH has been working on ensuring that there would never be forced disappearances again, but we see them once again in the Aguán sector or zone.

We also know that practices there are a test run and that those practices are spreading throughout Honduras. It concerns us to see that human rights violations are being generalized throughout the country. It is not because there is a lack of security, necessarily, because we are told that it is drug trafficking and related crime and organized crime that create insecurity, but that's not what we're saying. What we are saying is that there is a policy that is being put into practice by the state to annihilate political dissidents.

The results of our pre-electoral monitoring before the recent elections on November 24, 2013, from May to November a number of people were murdered and when you hear that figure you may say, “Well, it's an acceptable number” but we're talking about 45 people who were murdered because they were political opponents, because they were members of the popular resistance front, or simply because they were part of the new political party, Libre. It is the party with the most seats in the national congress.

But that's not all with regard to human rights violations. That was before the election and since the election there has been continued political persecution of dissidents. There are well-known leaders in their communities who have been murdered; they had made their demands and had made their claims to human rights organizations and with COFADEH before they were murdered. We helped them to present their claims to investigative agencies and in some cases there have been some investigations, but the results of those investigations have not been provided. Meanwhile, the people involved have been murdered.

So we are now in a situation that we have not seen in years. Often for people who made their demands and explained their cases to COFADEH, that was a way of saving their own lives because we could go ahead and ensure investigations that would have saved their lives. But today the cases that we see are completely different and there is a different pattern. The denunciation is made to the state that is in charge of investigating them, and then a few days later those same people are murdered and then the investigation simply dies. The public security ministry must represent victims in the investigation, and must ensure that prosecution requirements are met so that cases can go to court, but in fact it's doing something else. The authorities are not doing their job; therefore, when it comes to human rights the Honduran population has absolutely no defence.

That is a source of concern for us because there has been a criminalization and a stigmatization of unions and labour movements. In recent times trade unionists have been the object of all kinds of persecution.

Their children have been murdered in some cases. Others have had their children kidnapped temporarily. Their families have been threatened because after the coup in Honduras, we managed to ensure some measures to protect some of the precautionary measures issued by the Inter-American Court of Human Rights. But the leaders of trade unions are not necessarily being persecuted, but their families are being attacked. That is what we want to speak out against loudly and clearly because there is no political role on the part of the Honduran government to guarantee the full exercise of citizens' right to publicly demand respect for their rights or even privately demand respect for their rights.

The right to information is not available either. The information that is disseminated through the media is filtered, and the right to information and the right to free expression is being violated in Honduras, and as a necessary corollary, human rights violations continue.

This creates an obstacle to the access to information on the part of social advocates and the press. What concerns us even more is after the coup, there have been two very serious reports. One is the report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that the Government of Honduras encouraged...so there could be an international perception that the government was concerned with the human rights situation in Honduras. There's also the report of the truth commission that was created by the victims themselves, and that second commission, an alternate commission, is the one that is making recommendations that must be taken seriously so that human rights can be respected.

We believe the state authorities have an obligation to provide reparations for human rights violations. It is a debt of the Honduran state, but rather than pay that debt the state is creating strategies to continue violating human rights. There are no functional institutions set up. There are formal institutions, but the undermining of state institutions is truly regrettable.

The fact that state powers have been concentrated means that in Honduras we cannot improve living conditions and security of everyday people. I would like to repeat what I have been saying in recent days. Honduras does live in incredible insecurity. The statistics by the Violence Observatory and Alliance House, which provides statistics on violent deaths for young people between the ages of 14 to 20, are terrible. But the Violence Observatory has caused concern to ask because we see there is no interest in investigating murders.

There is, however, an interest in justifying the violence and the crimes by saying they are the result of drug trafficking, drug-related activity, gangs, and organized crime. But we are convinced there is a government state policy because we have found patterns that are extremely clear. There is political persecution of political dissidents. Of the over 30 journalists who have been murdered in recent times, two were investigated and in those cases they were not murdered because of what they were doing.

In the case of teachers, over 40 teachers have been murdered in recent days, and none of those cases has been investigated—quite the contrary. The teachers' union has had its reputation actively tarnished, and we are concerned because we have never seen so many concentrated violations of human rights against women before. Over 624 women have been murdered, and no investigations have taken place.

We thought that now at least we would have the opportunity to trust in a government entity in Honduras and that a national commissioner of human rights would be appointed to defend the people. An ombudsman, a trustworthy, credible person for the population—that's what we wanted. We made proposals to the national congress to appoint such an ombudsman, but the result has been that the appointee is a lawyer and—I'll provide you this context—a diplomat. Yes, he is diplomatic. He defends the mining industry and mining companies, and the greatest conflicts in our country are caused by mining companies. The reason for that is because there is no prior consultation and the rights of the communities near mines are not being respected. So it's logical that when people are faced with mining companies that are expropriating their lands, they will protest. So the situation in the country in that regard is lamentable.

We are here to tell you about it so that you can help us find a way toward not necessarily a solution that will please everyone but a solution that respects and supports human rights.

When you see that there are over 3,000 peasants facing court cases in our country because they have demanded their right to land ownership, they are being persecuted actually not only by being killed, but they also are being persecuted in the courts. And for us, when we see that happening, we feel there is very little that human rights organizations can do other than document and support those cases, but actually the results that we can achieve to strengthen the rule of law are very few.

Thank you very much.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you very much.

We have enough time—we are at two minutes before the bottom of the hour—to allow five minutes for each round of questions and answers, including of course both the question and the answer. That probably means one question per questioner.

So with that in mind, Mr. Sweet, I'll turn things over to you.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Thank you, Chair.

I hope I can get more than one question in. My first question is a quick one just to verify something.

Ms. Oliva de Nativí, thank you very much for your testimony. You said 624 women have been murdered. Could you tell us the timeframe within which they were murdered?

1:25 p.m.

General Coodinator, Committee of Relatives of the Detained and Disappeared in Honduras

Bertha Oliva

Those women were murdered in the last four years.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

You mentioned that 45 political opposition members have been murdered. So I'm curious to know, because no doubt they are in the parliament raising this on a consistent basis, I would think, their own colleagues being murdered.... You mentioned the present government doesn't have the political will to take action to defend individuals' human rights. How are they responding to the calls that the opposition must be making for them to act and investigate and bring these people who were responsible for the 45 murders to justice?

1:30 p.m.

General Coodinator, Committee of Relatives of the Detained and Disappeared in Honduras

Bertha Oliva

With regard to the 45 teachers who have been murdered, the denunciations are presented to public safety, which is a department in charge of conducting the investigations, and the denunciations are then presented to the public prosecutor. The result is a bogging down in red tape of the denunciations that are presented to the public prosecutor's office.

The recent attorney general went to the national congress in Honduras and was asked to explain what his job is. His answer was that of the denunciations or accusations that have been transmitted to the public prosecutor's office, there were only 20% that were being processed; the other 80% were not being processed. A discourse was intended to save the public ministry from any blame, but there was no effort to actually investigate the cases that were presented. That is what has been happening.

We're not the only ones who say this. The authorities of the Supreme Court in our country told a delegation of Spanish parliamentarians who recently visited Honduras to conduct an observation of human rights and stated that impunity is what prevails in Honduras. Imagine. The Supreme Court is in charge of implementing justice. With these cases, what we are trying to do is to create a report with the teachers' union so that we can actually present the cases to the International Labour Organization, and also, if possible, to the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and the International Criminal Court. We have to find ways and means to give Hondurans back the certainty that the rule of law must work because we want the rule of law to work in our country.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Ms. Oliva, you mentioned the teachers, but I was trying to focus specifically on the politicians who were opposition who were murdered because I'm thinking that their colleagues who are in the parliament are probably raising this. How is the government responding to them? I can see how they might try to dissuade citizens who don't have that voice inside the parliament. How are they responding to those opposition leaders?

1:30 p.m.

General Coodinator, Committee of Relatives of the Detained and Disappeared in Honduras

Bertha Oliva

I'm not sure whether I mentioned the concentration of power. Libre is the name of the political party that recently came to power, and it is the second-most powerful political party in Honduras and we can see that with the participation of 37 members in the national congress. What you can see is that there is a very strong alliance between the liberal party and the national party, and in most cases it is not necessary to even obtain the votes of the Libre party to make decisions.

The problem is that Libre, the party that represents the political opposition—that's who we're talking about; the people who have been murdered—does not have a voice in congress. Libre does not have a voice when it comes to freedom of expression. We know that that's another right that is being violated in our national congress because right now what is happening is that the democracy—or rather, the dictatorship that is disguised as a democracy—means that we are faced with a situation where we present cases to the authorities because that is the entity within the government that is responsible for investigating the cases and we get nowhere with it. On the other hand, Libre does not have the necessary political strength to do anything. In fact, after the elections, members of the political opposition were murdered. They are not even allowed to speak out in the national congress at all. So, the families of the victims do not have a voice.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Mr. Marston.

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before I start, I have a statement in the House so I'll have to leave very shortly, my apologies to our guest.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Before you go, Mr. Marston, I'll just say if anybody else has to leave early, we can adjust the order of the questioning with that in mind.

April 8th, 2014 / 1:35 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

I want to thank you, first of all, for coming to Canada to bring to our attention the very serious situation in Honduras.

Canada and Honduras are involved in free trade negotiations, and one of the things we hear from our government here is that they believe that free trade agreements will help raise the situation on human rights. We're concerned, in the opposition, that there is not a level of accountability in those agreements to ensure that.

You recently had a person—I understand, Dina Meza— who stated in an article in the Toronto Star that not a single honest state institution survives in her country. She went on to say, “We have to clean everything up. We have to start from zero because everything is corrupt.”

For you, the question is, do you see the free trade agreement doing anything on behalf of human rights in your country?

1:35 p.m.

General Coodinator, Committee of Relatives of the Detained and Disappeared in Honduras

Bertha Oliva

The point here with regard to the free trade agreement is the fact that it lacks mechanisms for regulating the actions of companies, and I don't think the free trade agreement, without regulations, without standards and mechanisms, will be able to be carried out and to show that, in fact, there is a concern for not violating the rights of workers.

I think it's quite the contrary. If the free trade agreement is approved as it stands, the consequences will be terrible. I would actually like to ask that you do whatever is necessary to make sure it's possible that the people who work within the government industry factories can be consulted, rather than simply applying standards with respect to human rights when the situation is such that human rights are being violated.

There have been factories in Honduras for years, and you've seen the level of poverty in Honduras. In fact, Honduras is getting poorer and poorer because the exploitation is increasing.

It is necessary to regulate that and to ensure that human rights defenders and advocates can make a difference. When there is no standard and when there are no mechanisms, when there is no control over what companies are doing, be they mining companies or garment companies, violations will take place in a country, and people will work because they need to work. That doesn't mean, however, that this translates into prosperity and that there is some kind of guarantee of labour rights and wealth. What's guaranteed is exploitation.

On that, what we must do is ensure that each worker has a life where he or she can live in dignity. We cannot simply exploit workers and then forget them and abandon them.

A great deal has to be done in Honduras to improve things, but what is truly at play right now is the human rights situation, the human rights violations. It is part of the government's policy, and we can see that clearly because a number of laws have been adopted in the national congress. Those laws restrict rights and they in fact encourage human rights violators to continue violating human rights because of the level of impunity.

There is a historic debt in Honduras when it comes to ensuring that justice is done, and impunity makes it possible for those who violate human rights to continue to do so, because there is no judgment, there is no punishment. This situation has arisen because governments are not interested in conducting serious and independent investigations.

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Do I have...?

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Actually, you're out of time. Thank you, Mr. Marston.

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Thank you very much.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Ms. Grewal.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to Ms. Oliva for your time and your presentation. Certainly all of us appreciate that.

Ms. Oliva, the international community has known about the human rights situation in Honduras for quite a long time. What peace offer or international involvement has done the most to protect human rights in Honduras, and what actions would be the most useful in improving the observation of human rights?