International Trade Committee on March 27th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank our honoured guests. Your Excellency, Mr. Al-Khaledi, and Mr. Abu Taleb, you honour us by being here today.

It seems to me that we were close once before, in the last term, to putting this deal together. Unfortunately, politics can get in the way of politics sometimes, and that prevented us from doing it. It's my sincere hope that my colleagues opposite, particularly in the official opposition, understand—I say this with great sincerity—that if we cannot put a deal with Jordan together, where we can we put a deal together?

I look at your country as moderate, strategic, progressive, and growing in opportunities, not just financially but also in terms of how you deal with your people.

Your Excellency, your comments about this make me very optimistic. You talked about peace, and I think that peace grows economic opportunity among all of us.

In that vein, my first question to you is about the Arab Spring. How has that impacted Jordan and your approach to business? Could you give me a sense of that, please?

[H.E. Basheer Fawwaz Zoubi]

Thank you very much for your kind words.

I know we've been very close, yet, as you said, it's politics. In Jordan we understand the pace at which things are going, but we are eager for the free trade agreement to come into force.

As I mentioned, I think what prompted the Arab Spring all over the Arab world was the economy. People took to the street, and they had their slogans. They started out being of an economic nature. Once they were on the street, the whole agenda opened up to include political and human rights, etc.

Jordan was no exception. People came out because of the economic situation and the state of our youth. I mentioned that 70% of our population is under the age of 30. The old formula was to finish school, go to university, get a good degree, get a good job, and end up in the middle class, working and achieving.

Right now that formula doesn't work. For the first time in Jordan, we had Ph.D. holders who were unemployed. They were looking for jobs. This applies to the whole Arab world.

When people took to the street, the agenda that prevailed was economic; relatively speaking, we had no problems with human rights. We had no vendetta between the people and the government itself. In this sense, it was a little bit easier for our government to interact with the people for reform. Everybody was calling for reforms, starting with His Majesty, as I said, even before the Arab Spring started. It's a gradual process. It's a process that has to be done and felt by everybody.

Thank God, as we said, that we didn't have any incidents or clashes or whatever in the some 4,000 demonstrations that took place in Jordan during those 15 months.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you.

The visit by His Majesty King Abdullah II to Canada almost five years ago was really what precipitated the opportunity we now have to do this deal.

I want to remind everyone here about what we mean by a free trade agreement: it's a rules-based system that we put in place to eliminate barriers to business opportunities between us. It's rather interesting that the U.S. has been there 10 years. We're way behind in that. For us as Canadians, if we don't understand that we're behind our great neighbour, who is also our competitor when we try to do business with you, it's a challenge.

You already have that free trade deal with the United States. I think I understand why we would want to do it with Jordan, but please help me understand why you want to do this so badly with Canada.

[H.E. Basheer Fawwaz Zoubi]

Again, as I said, part of how we help the economy is to work with free markets and to be part of international trade. We joined the WTO. That was one of the first things we achieved after His Majesty acceded to the throne.

We tried for a long time to become members of the WTO, and finally we managed to do it. Our approach is about partnership and opening up. That's the kind of economy we understand.

The more the merrier, to start with. As we said, we're very close to Canada. We work on the same basics. My colleagues and I cover the United Nations representing Jordan. I know on a day-to-day basis how close our relationship is to Canada in Geneva. In our work in the United Nations Human Rights Council we work very closely together. In New York also, we cover together many political and other matters that are neglected by other countries.

What we want to achieve is to build on our relationship with a partner that we know is like-minded and to work together. The free trade agreement between Canada and Jordan is a perfect example of that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Côté has one last question. We have a couple of minutes. Please go ahead.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you for answering one final question.

Among the guarantees that workers have, the right to strike is fundamental. It is pretty much a sacred right in Canada.

Do Jordanian workers have the right to strike without the government's permission?

[H.E. Basheer Fawwaz Zoubi]

Thank you very much.

Allow me to add something: I followed with interest your intervention either in this committee or in the House of Commons, and I appreciate how fond you are about the subject.

That said, yes, they can strike. It used to be that they had to get the approval of the government; right now, no: you have to inform the government. Sometimes you need to inform the government because you don't know what will happen in the street. If there is no reply from the government, it's as if you have the green light; you can go ahead and do it.

So yes, they can strike. Recently we had the strike from the teachers and nurses. Even the strikers are getting to be more aware and more mature, meaning that when teachers felt they were affecting the students after two weeks of study, they decided to come back. The nurses' strike was done in shifts, as they also work in shifts, so this shows how much judgment.... People have their needs and people need to express their needs, but at the same time, they're not ruining the whole system in which they are working.

There was an interesting article in The Globe and Mail on Friday. It describes two demonstrations that occurred in Jordan. The first demonstration happened and it was in progress. The second demonstration did not really agree with the first one, but they were going slower, so they couldn't mix. When they were almost mixed, the police came just to be standing there between them; then everybody went home and—

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Ambassador, could you reassure me? Does that apply to all groups of workers?

[H.E. Basheer Fawwaz Zoubi]

It is the ones that the labour law indicates, excluding the four groups that you mentioned, again because the law is not there yet—but they can go out and do it, and nobody is going to stop them. They'd be one of the 4,000 demonstrations that happened.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you.

Thank you very much for coming in and answering the questions. It's been a very informative hour. We look forward to a free trade agreement with Jordan. We will continue our deliberations and we will be moving forward on our witness list. We will move on to clause-by-clause study very soon.

Thank you very much.

I will suspend the meeting now until we are set up for the next hour.

[Proceedings continue in camera]