Evidence of meeting #23 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was arrest.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Vanessa MacDonnell  Professor, Faculty of Law, University of New Brunswick, As an Individual
Leonardo S. Russomanno  Criminal Defence Counsel, Webber Schroeder Goldstein Abergel, As an Individual
George Rigakos  Professor, Chair, Department of Law and Legal Studies, Carleton University, As an Individual

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

I would say most criminals laugh at the criminal system as far as shoplifting. I bluntly say that as a person who's been in that area, and not just in criminal law but my parents had a retail store for 40 years. Criminals laugh at the justice system. I'm going to say that they're taking it much more seriously now.

In relation to private security firms, I think civil liability, just like evolution eliminates the stupid, is going to eliminate the stupid people who don't do proper training. It's going to eliminate those companies that don't train their employees properly. Sooner or later they won't be able to get insurance, and sooner or later will not be able to have a security firm. Bluntly, lawyers like you and me are the people who take them to court and sue them for whatever they're worth, and we get insurance payouts. As a result, insurance companies won't cover them any more.

I think yes, it will take some case law. It will take some time, but sooner or later those companies will have to train them properly. I learned that when I was doing litigation in relation to a bar that I sued. I could not believe how much training their employees went through.

12:50 p.m.

Criminal Defence Counsel, Webber Schroeder Goldstein Abergel, As an Individual

Leonardo S. Russomanno

Let me just use an example to establish my disagreement. The charter was enacted in 1982. There have been messages being sent by the court, including the Supreme Court, about what the boundaries of police obligations and powers are. I would say that the police in many cases have yet to receive that message.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

I don't disagree with you. Maybe criminals are smarter, but I don't disagree with you.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Our time is up.

I want to thank the panel for being here. I think you've provided us with a great deal of information. Thank you very much.

I would say to the committee that on Tuesday we have officials coming. We will be prepared to go to clause-by-clause if the committee is prepared for that.

Perhaps a more important thing is that this is Julia's last meeting with us for a while. Julia's going to take her leave of the committee. We're going to miss her.

Certainly we've appreciated your being here, Julia, and we wish you and your family all the best as you go forward.

12:50 p.m.

Voices

Hear, hear!

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

The meeting is adjourned.