Evidence of meeting #26 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Thank you, Mr. Jean.

Mr. Jacob.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Good morning, Mr. Minister.

The main estimates show a reduction of $9.74 million in funding related to the management of immigration cases involving classified information under division 9 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. The role of special advocates in confidential hearings related to the issuance of security certificates is to protect the interests of permanent residents or foreign nationals in their absence.

Will that reduction of $9.74 million result in a decrease in the number of special advocates and thereby make new victims of the permanent residents and foreign nationals? Will this cut affect the rights of permanent residents and foreign nationals who are subject to a security certificate application?

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I appreciate that. Again, you've highlighted the role the Government of Canada has with respect to immigration and refugee issues in this country. You've identified $9.74 million. Again, that is one of those programs, and this is the business we're in. Certain programs sunset and have to be reconsidered. So this will be up for consideration for renewal in the fiscal year. Again, I would urge you and all our colleagues to stay tuned to the national budget that will be presented in the next couple of weeks.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Let me ask my question again—

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Pardon me. I guess I didn't address one of the things, which was special advocates. This is a very interesting program we have with respect to special advocates. Interestingly enough, in my conversations with attorneys general outside of Canada, particularly in Australia, the United States, and Britain, they were particularly interested in the special advocates program. I appreciate that everybody has a slightly different take on these and a slightly different program.

I thought I'd highlight for you that it was of interest to me that this program, and how we deal with some of these very sensitive issues of national security, was raised with me when I sat down with other attorneys general as a possible model for other countries to have a look at.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

My second question is for the Minister of Justice as well.

I notice that the main estimates show a $333,000 reduction in contributions to the Access to Justice in Both Official Languages Support Fund.

What is the purpose of that fund? Why did you decide to make cuts to the program and what will be the consequences?

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, this is one of those programs I have been very supportive of. I'll tell you what it does. It works for both the provincial and federal governments, particularly outside the provinces of Quebec and New Brunswick. They have facilities in both official languages for whatever contact a person has with the justice system for any federal violation, not necessarily just in the criminal area. They accommodate both languages. It's less certain in other parts of the country.

What we have is this program to assist, for instance, in the prosecution of federal offences to make sure that the individual who appears within a provincial context or in a provincial court or at a provincial facility has it in both languages. There's no decrease in this.

What happened was that here was $1 million three years ago that was going to lapse, because the program was just getting going. What we did was spread that money out over three years, at $333,000 per year, in a sense to get the program up and running and get it accommodated.

The original allocation for that will continue. I'm supportive of that. Because of the timing of getting it going, we were in danger several years ago of losing that $1 million, and we wanted to get the program up and running.

Again, it comes down to the Contraventions Act. Again, this is part of what we do just to make sure that somebody, no matter where he or she is in this country, is accommodated in both official languages if provincial resources are being used for any sort of federal contravention.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Wilks.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks, Mr. Minister, for being here today with regard to the main estimates and the supplementary estimates.

With regard to Bill C-10, the comprehensive bill that had many issues in it, I was particularly happy to see that the drug provisions in Bill C-10 have finally been adopted. I believe they are balanced and focused. Can you please provide me with further information on the government's balanced approach to drugs in this country?

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I've touched on a couple of the different issues. Certainly one of them is my and the government's support of drug treatment courts. That was recognized and accommodated within Bill C-10. The drug treatment courts help those individuals who unfortunately have become addicted. They get involved with the criminal justice system, and this gives them an opportunity to get the rehabilitation they need and avoid the consequences of a criminal conviction.

As you know, this is part of an ongoing program we have, the national anti-drug strategy. A part of that program is to try to educate people to get the message out that drugs are dangerous and this is not an area individuals should involve themselves in, and if they get involved with it, they should get treatment. But certainly the drug treatment courts are a part of that.

The bill you raised, Bill C-10, which was passed last night and is on its way for royal assent very quickly, is also focused on the gangs, the organized crime, the people who are in the business of trafficking. For instance, it makes specific references to people who bring drugs into Canada. Many times these people are importing death into this country. For instance, we know of the deaths caused by the individuals who bring ecstasy into this country, particularly out in western Canada—British Columbia and Alberta. We all know examples of individuals who have brought these drugs into Canada, and this has resulted in the unfortunate deaths of a number of individuals.

That being said, what I have been told over the years by law enforcement agencies is that the people who bring drugs into Canada are not the individuals I identify who could benefit from drug treatment court or the individuals who were experimenting. They tell me this is organized crime; these are gangs that bring these drugs into Canada. These are not one-offs. These are sophisticated operatives. So the provisions of Bill C-10 target those types of individuals who are involved with this kind of activity, and it sends a message to them that if they are bringing drugs into Canada they will be facing jail time. That is what they're going to get if they get caught. I want that message to get out. I hope the message that they shouldn't do this gets to them, that they should get out of this kind of activity.

That being said, if you do bring drugs into Canada, there are serious consequences. As you say, that is captured in Bill C-10, but Bill C-10 goes beyond that. As I said in my opening remarks to you, it does accommodate the drug courts, which I support. Again, we want to help that individual who has unfortunately become addicted, but at the same time we want to send a clear message to drug traffickers that this is not to be tolerated in Canada.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

You alluded to drug courts. I wonder if there are any plans to establish these courts in remote communities. As you are aware, they are in six communities across Canada right now.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, we work with our provincial counterparts, and again, they are not just limited to those that are supported by the federal government. I know my provincial and territorial counterparts are very involved with making sure that people get the treatment and the help they need. But again, we are continuing to support the drug treatment courts, and again, that was accommodated in Bill C-10.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Thanks very much.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

You have a little time left.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Minister, as you know, my background with the RCMP was in drugs, so I am very happy that Bill C-10 is moving forward with regard to that.

I wonder if you could speak a little more on the importation of drugs into this country and how it is affecting our youth.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I never sit down with people in the law enforcement business without their raising, at some point, the issues of drugs and drug trafficking. They tell me that, for instance, quite apart from how dangerous grow op facilities are to the neighbours and to the community, the pot that these traffickers or these people who are in the business of selling this product grow very often becomes the currency for some of the other drugs that come into this country, like heroin and cocaine and ecstasy. It is part of the transaction that takes place. So we all have a stake in getting the message out.

I mentioned the national anti-drug strategy. If we have a careful look at the messages delivered through that program, they are to encourage people not to get involved with this kind of activity. They are to educate people, including parents, to recognize what may be happening to their child before it's too late.

The bill is very specific. It goes after drug traffickers, who are very often the individuals involved with organized crime, and these are sophisticated operations. Our laws have to stay up to date in this area, and that's what that bill does. And I can't let the opportunity go by without thanking you for all the encouragement you have given and all the support you have given to moving forward—

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Thank you, Minister.

Go ahead, Madame Borg.

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Thank you for joining us today, Mr. Minister.

My first question will also be on drug treatment courts. We have heard about the problems of accessibility to those courts and about their effectiveness; there has been a lot of discussion about it.

I am also concerned that, given the new measures in Bill C-10, there will likely be more people charged with drug-related offences. But we see no additional funds for those courts, simply the same amount.

Mr. Minister, do you feel that it will be enough to deal with all the new charges we are going to get as a result of Bill C-10?

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I think the drug treatment courts are part of our overall strategy and the initiatives we have taken. I have been informed by those close to a number of these issues that many times you're getting the same individuals. Again, these individuals are involved with organized crime and the drug trafficking is not just something that somebody came up with one day when they decided they were going to sell a few drugs. No, they tell me this covers individuals who have been involved with this activity many times or for quite some time. While these individuals from time to time do get caught up in the criminal justice system, many times we're dealing with the same individuals.

One common denominator is that they tell me the people who get involved with this kind of activity are part of organized crime. These individuals who get involved with this kind of activity are professionals. As you quite correctly point out, the drug treatment courts are one part of this. I know the provinces have a number of different programs that will work with this. When I talk about a national anti-drug strategy, I don't mean to indicate that it's just the federal government. When I get together with my provincial and territorial counterparts, they are very vocal about what they are doing to assist those who get involved with the drug business in this country.

I say to them and I say to you that we all have a stake in this. While the federal government is part of that and part of the initiatives you've seen me outline here today—and I've talked many times before—we're part of an overall larger scheme to try to assist people to get off drugs, to stay away from drugs, but also to go after those individuals who are in the business of supplying them with these sometimes lethal items.

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Thank you.

My second question deals with the fact that federal payments to provinces for youth justice services will not increase at all in the 2012-2013 main estimates, according to the figures we have before us today.

Why is the government not planning to increase those contributions that are so important in helping to reduce youth crime rates, planning instead to send the bill for prisons and the justice system under Bill C-10 to the provinces?

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, we do actually contribute more to the provinces each year. In last year's budget, the increase to the provinces over and above what we've given was $2.4 billion. There have been considerable increases over the six-plus years in which we have been in government, and again, that's one of the items—what we are transferring to the provinces—that I for one always have a look at on budget day. Again, it's $2.4 billion at a time when there are restraints, and as they say, money doesn't grow on trees.

I was pleased to see the increase to the provinces last year, and again, we'll have to wait for this budget.

Noon

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

I would like to speak more specifically about young people. I understand that you always have to evaluate the transfers, but there are going to be changes that will have consequences for the courts. In fact, changes have been made to the youth justice system.

That was a choice. Since the government imposed those changes, why did it not choose instead to help the provinces?

Noon

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Well, I do believe we assist them.

With respect to young people, the bill we had before us last night, which was voted on in the House of Commons, targets a relatively small group of out-of-control and dangerous young people who are often a danger not just to the public but to themselves. Again, we work with our provincial counterparts at all different levels of this, and again, we have increased the contributions that the provinces can spend on young people, adults, and seniors. I believe it's quite substantial—$2.4 billion in the last year alone.

I won't speak for this budget here. That would be beyond my mandate, but certainly all of us look forward to the budget coming up in the next couple of weeks.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Thank you, Minister.

I thank your officials for being here.

We do understand you need to be somewhere else, so we will suspend briefly and go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]