Yes.
Evidence of meeting #39 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sentence.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #39 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sentence.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
From a policy perspective, no.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Right, so would it be fair to say that you can't think of any circumstance where an MMP is appropriate? You don't think there should be any MMPs.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
So no matter what crime, there should not be a mandatory minimum penalty.
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Yes. It doesn't mean that I don't think there should be very harsh and severe penalties for certain crimes.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
You seem to also suggest that there shouldn't be maximum penalties either.
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
The logic would flow that there shouldn't be maximum penalties either.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
So you don't believe Parliament should give any guidance to the courts on sentencing; it should be a complete judicial discretion.
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Oh no, Parliament gives many forms of guidance on sentencing. Let's just look at—
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
If you don't put a minimum or a maximum, what guidance is Parliament giving to the judiciary on sentences?
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Well, there are the principles of sentencing in the Criminal Code. There are aggravating and mitigating factors that judges can be directed to look at. Those are the types of useful guidance....
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Okay. People who come to this committee to oppose MMPs routinely say that these things do not deter. I take it that's your position as well, that MMPs don't constitute deterrence.
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Yes. Of course, being a criminal practitioner, I haven't done the studies myself—
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
—but from what I've read, yes, that's right.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
But you do recognize that there are two types of deterrence, right? There are general deterrents, which is what you're talking about in saying that the public won't in general be deterred by an MMP, but there are also specific deterrents, correct?
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
So when this person is in jail for a minimum of five years and cannot reoffend, they are specifically deterred from committing crimes against children.
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Well, they are prevented from committing further crimes—
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Lawyer, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Well, no, they're prevented from committing certain crimes, but it's interesting to look at: do lengthy periods of incarceration lead to less recidivism—
12:30 p.m.
Conservative