Evidence of meeting #21 for National Defence in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was soldiers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

P. Atkinson  Director General Operations, Strategic Joint Staff , Department of National Defence
Dean J. Milner  Commander, 2nd Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group, Department of National Defence
Roger R. Barrett  Commanding Officer, Third Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, Department of National Defence

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

We have a rather full agenda today, and we have some high-quality witnesses to appear before us. We want to give them the appropriate amount of time.

Later today we're continuing our study on the health of the forces, but we want to start with what has become known as our regular Afghanistan update. As regular or irregular as it is, it's always welcome.

General Atkinson, director general of operations, Strategic Joint Staff, you've been here before and you know the routine. The floor is yours for the first period of time, and then we'll do a quick round of questions, one from each party, and we'll move on.

Go ahead, sir.

3:40 p.m.

Brigadier-General P. Atkinson Director General Operations, Strategic Joint Staff , Department of National Defence

Thank you very much. I know that those high-quality witnesses you were talking about are sitting in the row behind me. I'm very glad you've called them here.

I will step right in. Over the past two months, there have been a number of operations conducted with ISAF forces, the Afghan National Army, and the Afghan National Police, each playing an important role. These operations were very successful in improving the mobility of the security forces and in contributing to the level of stability in our area of responsibility, consequently extending the reach of the Afghan government.

Joint Task Force Afghanistan has also completed a number of development projects, which I will also discuss briefly. One caution that I would add to these introductory remarks is the fact that although we are achieving success, Afghans still need our support and our presence, because they have not yet achieved the required level of self-sustainment.

Over the past two months, insurgents have continued to deploy IEDs, suicide bombers, and indirect fire—rockets and mortars—against coalition forces. Those tactics represent the lowest level of combat in the counter-insurgency operations. The insurgents have continued to target civilians, children, schools, and infrastructure throughout Kandahar province. However, they have achieved only limited success to date. They attempt to exploit any opportunity to discredit the Government of Afghanistan and ISAF, and will continue to attempt to intimidate the local population through propaganda, execution of those they identify as traitors, and attacking police stations and government district centres. The use of these tactics is a reaction to the successful operations by pro-government forces in recent months.

Here are a few examples of the terror campaign against the Afghan people over the last months.

A suicide bombing at an outdoor dog-fighting competition killed 80 people, and wounded approximately 125 local nationals, on February 17. That attack was the deadliest terror attack in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban in 2001. Unfortunately, that was a bad wake-up call.

The insurgents claimed responsibility for eight attacks against cellular towers across Kandahar province. They wish to decrease or cut that communication link between ISAF and the local nationals. That is because the local nationals have increasingly been reporting on their activities to ISAF.

The insurgents attempted to burn down the Mia Abdul Hakim high school, southwest of Kandahar City. That institution was attended by more than 1,250 students, including 179 girls. This incident was strongly condemned by the local media, who nicknamed the insurgents “the enemies of education”. What is positive from that event is that two days after it occurred, the people from the community, including the principal, the teachers, and the school watchman, reported that 80% of the students had returned to the school despite the damage.

Also, during my last appearance, I was asked about the misinformation campaigns conducted by the insurgents. Following an operation by coalition forces where a number of insurgents were killed, the insurgents attempted to exploit this incident by reporting to local and international media that ISAF was responsible for the bombing and killing of 40 to 60 civilians during a fair and a sports event. Very quickly the story was denounced locally and by ISAF. ISAF is undertaking efforts to release classified imagery to counter that misinformation program.

I want to slip into the security pillar and talk about the Afghan national security forces. The Afghan National Army and the Afghan National Police are integrally linked to the security of the key districts of Kandahar province. The joint provincial coordination centre enables security forces to synchronize, coordinate, and monitor provincial Afghan national security forces.

The Afghan National Army's development into a force capable of planning, executing, and sustaining operations with some coalition support is progressing very well. The continuing improvements in their ability to plan and to undertake operations are evidence of the ANA's steady and positive growth. Afghan National Army combat units continue to improve, with over half being considered capable of performing counter-insurgency operations with external support.

Collective combat skills also continue to improve. The ANA currently has a leadership role in 25% of military operations across Afghanistan. However, work still remains to be done in training of headquarters and support units in order for the ANA to eventually achieve a truly independent capability.

ISAF requires 56 operational mentor liaison teams. Currently only 34 of those are filled, and Canada provides six of those 34 OMLTs.

The focused district development assists in the development of a professional Afghan National Police. It provides vetted, Afghan, uniform police leaders, therefore helping to eliminate local corruption. Building a visible national police force is a long-term project, and while tremendous progress has been made, there still is a long way for them to go with their police force.

The U.S. Marines intend to dedicate approximately 1,000 soldiers towards Afghan national security force capacity-building, while the balance, the other 2,200 soldiers, will be conducting stability operations throughout Regional Command South. This surge is expected to be in place for seven months. ISAF announced that they started combat operations today.

The Afghan National Army was created on 1 December 2002 when President Hamid Karzai issued a decree announcing the creation of an all-volunteer Afghan National Army inclusive of social and ethnic origin.

Today, the Afghan National Army stands at around 50,000; every two weeks, the Kabul Military Training Centre graduates 1,100 more soldiers. The Afghan National Army includes five ground maneuver corps and one air corps.

The five ANA corps serve as regional commands which allow the Afghan National Army to put a permanent ANA presence in every region of Afghanistan. The Afghan National Air Corps is an important and growing element of the ANA. Equipped with former Soviet Union aircraft, the ANAC is being trained to perform a wide range of missions that include presidential airlift, medical and casualty evacuation, battlefield mobility, reconnaissance airlift, airborne command and control as well as light air attack.

The Afghan National Army demonstrates clearly to the Afghan people and to the international community that the Afghan national government authority extends throughout the nation. For such a young Army, the ANA is maturing rapidly. Its soldiers are extremely dedicated and they benefit from the centuries-old warrior tradition of Afghanistan. They take pride in their accomplishments against the enemies of their people and in being the force of security and stability that will enable a new and democratic Afghanistan to evolve.

The multi-ethnic, highly-skilled and professional Afghan National Army is a national institution respected by the Afghan people and viewed by them as a strong symbol of national unity.

Turning now specifically to the police, developing a capable ANP, or Afghan National Police, is critical to ensuring security, both within Afghanistan and at its borders. Currently the ANP totals 76,410 officers out of the authorized 82,000. The Ministry of Interior expects to reach that goal of 82,000 by December of this year. In addition to the regular police force, the ANP includes counter-terrorism and counter-narcotics forces, customs, counter-IED, and border police, as well as the auxiliary police forces acting in complement to the existing security apparatus.

Entry-level training for the ANP is conducted at the central training centre in Kabul, and also at one of seven regional training centres, in Kandahar, Herat, Gardez, Mazar-e sharif, Kunduz, Jalalabad, and Bamyan. Trainees attend an eight-week program of instruction in the following areas: general police duties, weapons proficiency, first aid, human rights training, community policing, basic border police training, and Afghan law and culture. They conduct specialized training in bomb disposal, fingerprinting, traffic management, unarmed combat, crime scene investigation, advanced firearms, and civil order riot control skills—all the things that we take for granted here in our own country.

ANP operations with the Afghan National Army are continuing to mature, with coordination, infrastructure and training improving every day. The Ministry of Interior has initiated a number of reforms aimed at increasing the professionalism of the Afghan National Police.

Key to their development process is the United States Combined Security Transition Command, and its focused district development program. This program is on top of that eight weeks of basic training that I've already described, and consists of another eight weeks of training. The local police are taken out of the cycle, out of the area; that is, they are taken back. This started last December, when they started taking police out of the regions and giving them this higher level training. Then they embed them back into their regions. This first cycle is just being completed, and we're going to see our first results from the policemen in Kandahar who have just done this. We anticipate that this effort will make some gains.

I want to talk specifically about benchmarks for the ANA and the ANP.

The Afghan National Army development into a force capable of planning, executing and sustaining operations with some coalition support is progressing very well.

Their continued improvements in the ability to plan operations, and their ability to undertake operations are evidence of Afghan National Army steady and positive growth. Afghan National Army combat units continue to improve with over half being considered capable of performing counter-insurgency operations with external support.

Collective combat skills also continue to improve. The Afghan National Army currently has a leadership role in approximately 25% of military operations in Afghanistan. However, work still remains to be done in the training of headquarters and support units in order for the Afghan National Army eventually to achieve a truly independent capability.

Since my last appearance on February 5, we now have an additional operational mentor liaison team working with the combat support kandak. In fact, Canada has had a direct impact on the training, development, and growth of the ANA, which is now at 50,000, as I mentioned earlier. At any one time, we have 150 soldiers training and mentoring 2,500 Afghan soldiers with our OMLT teams in Kandahar province.

Another key realization was achieved in February 2008, when the Afghan National Army, in cooperation with the Afghan National Police, took over responsibility for security in the Zhari district, with ISAF forces in support. The Afghan national security forces have now taken responsibility in Zhari, a huge step for them.

Also at our previous appearance, I explained the progress achieved by the ANP, which are being mentored by our police mentoring and liaison teams. Today we have 60 soldiers and military police embedded with the Afghan police. These embedded soldiers live and work with them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The Afghan National Police are becoming a more effective force, able to provide a basic—a basic—level of security in key district centres.

In March, an Afghan-led operation was conducted by the Afghan National Army, where they demonstrated their ability to conduct operations at the battalion level, in conjunction with the Afghan police. The operation involved searching an area owned by the insurgents, and it produced a significant cache of ammunition and weapons. The operation has increased the level of security in the immediate area of a police substation, and has improved the influence of the Government of Afghanistan in that region.

Now, shifting to development, Joint Task Force Afghanistan's support of reconstruction and development stands as one of our key supporting military tasks. I have a couple of good examples. First, when you look at top left slide, you will see that it is of Kandahar City. As I've mentioned before, Kandahar City is growing and is becoming a centre of social and economic activity for southern Afghanistan. But to keep the economy moving, transportation is a primary consideration for city planners, particularly pedestrian traffic. For years, pedestrians mingled freely between storefront properties and major throughways, slowing traffic, causing accidents, restricting freedom of movement and retarding economic activity. Working with the City of Kandahar's chief engineer, our PRT mentored a local engineering firm in the delivery of this major fencing project. Afghans, with Canadian assistance, identified the key areas requiring renovation. Members of our specialist engineering team and the city developed a proposal to fence off four key downtown areas to restrict pedestrians from spilling onto the street.

Now, on the top right of the slide, you will see the result: the traffic is flowing smoothly, ISAF vehicles can move more freely throughout the city, economic activity is picking up. Most importantly, fewer accidents with serious injuries are occurring as a result.

On the bottom left slide is the largest school in Spin Boldak, a town on the border with Pakistan. The Malik Kabir school was attacked by the insurgents last summer. The insurgents' aim was to discourage the population from sending their children to school. They detonated a landmine at the base of the school wall, damaging the foundation and the roofs of the classrooms. The place was unfit to be used after the attack. At the behest of the local population, the KPRT and local engineers swung into action. After extensive repairs, the school is operational once again. The locals have endorsed the repairs, and are reported to have taken a more active role in their children's education by keeping an eye on insurgent activity—reporting on it—and posting guards to help provide security at night. At the bottom right is the image of that renovated school, which has 300 students, both male and female.

I'll turn now to the next slide.

Located in the center of Kandahar City, the village of Hazrat Ji Baba has been without a proper pedestrian bridge for several years. Previously, a small wooden structure provided a valuable connecting service to an area populated with small business. Over the years, the bridge slowly disintegrated, leaving nothing but the rotten foundations amidst a flowing morass of stinking debris and raw sewage. Undeterred, local villagers continued to cross the liquid ditch. Now that the new bridge is complete, it is far easier for villagers to access local markets.

That's a small project, big impact.

Route Foster is one that you would have caught on the news last week. On April 7, the governor of Kandahar province joined with General Laroche to officially open a new road-paving project that employs more than 400 local Afghans. This ambitious project is a major step forward for the people of the troubled Panjwai district west of Kandahar City. This project was undertaken to improve security, but has major impacts on development, economy, and governance. Hundreds of local workers, many who braved Taliban threats to work on the road, were on hand for the ceremony, as were local leaders and village elders. General Laroche said paving the road will make it harder, although not impossible, for insurgents to plant improvised explosive devices.

The locals, when we had a team over visiting last week, made the point that they've been leaning on the Taliban when they see them, saying, “Leave our road alone. We need this road for the betterance of our lives.” By winning the hearts and minds of those people and by having their level of engagement in a project this major, this is the type of success on the ground that really makes the difference.

Now turning to governance, the return of the local population in Zhari and Panjwai, active shuras, the successful medical civil action patrols, and the fact that more than 400 local employees have been hired to work on the route are indicative of our progress. Since the fall of the Taliban government, Kandahar City celebrated its first ever Kandahar spring festival. This CIDA-sponsored program attracted more than 3,200 individuals to activities that took place between March 1 and March 4 last month. Officials of the government of Afghanistan were directly involved in the organizational process.

Skills Generation is a non-profit, non-governmental organization whose aim is to improve educational opportunities for children in developing countries. Skills Generation is the first organization to have one of its projects approved under the new CIDA web-based system called “challenge facility”, which matches private donations with CIDA funding to Canadian non-governmental organizations working in Afghanistan. An estimated 8,500 girls and boys in 17 elementary schools in Dand, Daman, Arghandab, and Spin Boldak districts will benefit directly from this project.

March 20 marked the birth of the Prophet Muhammad. It occurred without any incident, despite numerous threats by the Taliban that they would do so in the days leading up to the event. Afghan national security forces assumed primary security, while coalition forces were prepared in a quick-reaction mode. We did not have to do anything.

Unfortunately, our successes in Afghanistan over the last two months have come with the price of four Canadian soldiers killed in action. We will remember those courageous soldiers, and we send our deepest regrets to their families and their friends and their soldiers who are still there serving.

I want to close off with just two more good-news stories. Task Force Kandahar “Role 3” medical unit made a significant impact during what was an unfortunate incident--the mass casualty following that suicide bombing at the dog fight. It was reported that during this incident there was a record-breaking turnaround for both triage treatment and evacuation, the quickest that had ever been seen in the region.

Thanks to the involvement of our Regional Command South medical evacuation assets--read helicopters and medics--and the multinational Role 3 efforts, they moved right in on the ground into the city and took control of this, because this was a major, major event. Patients were evacuated directly to the Mirwais hospital in Kandahar City and the new Afghan National Army medical clinic in Camp Hero, where all the training is going on for the ANA, with the overflow being directed to the Kandahar airfield. The triage was well organized and several life-saving decisions were made. The population of Kandahar City also responded quickly and massively to a request for blood donors at the Mirwais hospital, and the long lineup of donors included members of the provincial council.

Joint Task Force Afghanistan was served with a huge morale booster last month when Team Canada arrived on the ground, led by the Chief of the Defence Staff, bringing the Stanley Cup, the Jonas Tomalty band, and the band Blue Rodeo. They played a bunch of hockey; the soldiers got to interact and meet with them; and in the midst of all the things they were doing, a small, little bright light from Canada shone on Kandahar for the days they were there. There was an impact on the soldiers, but there was a huge impact back on the people who actually came over on the trip--the hockey players, the bands, and all the people who came.

The Canadian Forces this last month welcomed the arrival of Elissa Goldberg, the representative of Canada in Kandahar; I always think that “ROCK” makes a nice little acronym there. She represents Canada at the provincial level, as the senior civilian representative of our government, working under the leadership of our ambassador in Kabul, Ambassador Lalani, and supports the implementation of Canada's strategic objectives in Kandahar province. She also serves as the principal interlocutor with the provincial government officials and institutes in Kandahar on governance and development-related matters.

Having her there now is a huge step in moving forward our whole-of-government agenda. There is a Foreign Affairs face working with Governor Asadullah Khalid, and this is what we have needed to help move that agenda forward. So it's a very important step.

In closing, I want to draw your attention to the slide. You'll see the link on the bottom. There was a NATO article that was published in Bucharest this past week and it summarized progress in Afghanistan. I have a single copy here, but that link will allow you to go to it. It is an outstanding 24-page article. It has all kinds of metrics. It features a lot about what is happening in Kandahar and what Canadians are doing, which just shows that we are having an effect.

I know you have a busy agenda. I'll close off there and I'll take any questions you have, sir.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Thank you, sir.

We'll go to a quick round, if we can. As you know, we have a busy schedule.

Who will start? Let's try to keep it to four to five minutes, please.

Mr. Wilfert.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, General Atkinson, for your briefing. I want to first of all concur with your comments with regard to the work that our forces are doing there. Having been there, although so briefly in April 2006, with the then Minister of Foreign Affairs, I can certainly appreciate the work that's being done.

The issue I talked to our forces there about, which continued when I was at Foreign Affairs, was the issue of the Afghan National Police. My understanding has been that the army is much further ahead than the police. You talk about how critical or crucial they are to security and that at the moment they can provide at least basic security needs, but we really need to enhance that role.

I'd like to know a little more about that eight-week additional program you were talking about. How will that be assessed in terms of its effectiveness? What kind of rollout do they anticipate afterwards, given the fact that, in order to have the kind of development projects that we would like to see there--obviously through the Afghan government--we can secure it?

4 p.m.

BGen P. Atkinson

No problem. I'll back up a little bit, just to underscore what you were saying.

The Afghan National Army basically started two years ahead of the Afghan National Police. That's why they are at the level they are today. For a country to achieve a level of stability and for the people to have confidence in their government and in their service and everything else, they do not want to see a soldier on the street, they want to see a policeman.

So the fact that they have been able to recruit 76,000-plus police officers so far is a measure of effectiveness in its own right, that they've gotten there. But you can't build a police force overnight. That is based on eight weeks of basic training and then putting them in on the ground into the communities, into the districts, into the police substations where we're working, and they're working hand in glove with the Afghan National Army. That is why we have put our police mentoring liaison team--six of them--and embedded those in with the police that are working in our key districts.

That next level of training, the American-led organization in Kabul, CSTC Alpha, has the mandate to provide that next level of professional training. What they've done is this. They've come in and they've taken, I believe, about 80 policemen out of our district and they've put some temporary police in place while they were there, taken them back to Kabul, and provided eight weeks of further professional training and policing.

The first cycle started in December. The people who went from Kandahar went about two months ago and they are expected to start coming back into our area within the next week or so. The proof will be in the pudding, on the ground, when we see the increased level of professionalism and how they act on the ground: I call it trust, but verify. That's why we work with them, with our police on this mentoring liaison team--which is soldiers and military police working in the checkpoints--so we can see they are making that necessary progress.

It will take time. I would love for us to be able to have 80 police on the training teams, but it is moving ahead and we are very encouraged by the operations that are taking place between the Afghan National Army and the Afghan National Police together. The one operation I talked about, led by the Afghan National Army, supported by the police, had an impact.

They're not there yet. It's a work-in-progress. It took a long time for us to build the RCMP and the OPP and the other police forces we have in our nation. They're a nation in a hurry. They want to get there and we just need to continue to help them, but, sir, it's going to take time, as you pointed out.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

You have a minute.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Joe McGuire Liberal Egmont, PE

Okay.

We haven't had a pitched battle now for over a year. Our casualties have been from the IEDs.

What progress are we making in identifying the IEDs before they actually go off? What kind of expertise are we developing there? What statistical progress have we made of the ones that went off versus the ones we identified?

We don't control that much territory, and the Taliban have free rein, basically, all over the place, in the evenings or at night. We have to be very good at this. So how good are we?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Make it a short response, if you can.

4:05 p.m.

BGen P. Atkinson

This is a very complex question. I'll be able to answer part of it, and I'll tell you why I won't answer a certain piece of it specifically.

IEDs are the lowest common denominator the Afghans have available to them. For us to be effective and to establish confidence for the Afghans, we need to be throughout the districts and interfacing with the people everywhere, which is why we and the Afghan national security forces have to move about, both individually and together.

Obviously we have defensive efforts. I talked about the EROC system, our mine clearance system, our tanks and mine rollers, and things that we have. Those are physical measures we take.

Obviously we have an awful lot of intelligence-led operations, which we take. We go after what I call “before the boom”--that is, the fellows who design those things, the fellows who finance those things, and then obviously we go after the people who place those things.

We have a full-court press. Without going into detail, it is something we do each and every day. The reason I don't want to talk about the details of our success in different things is that would give direct feedback to the fellows on the other side about their level of success or not.

We are having a tremendous amount of success, but it is at a cost. As you've pointed out, our greatest number of casualties have been because of the IED. It's a terrible weapon. It's indiscriminate--against not just our soldiers but also the local nationals, the people, the children, the contractors. The IED is indiscriminate, and it is causing the Taliban to lose whatever nascent support they had with the local population. The people are getting tired. They are turning them in. They are telling us, “Don't go down that road. They put an IED in there last night. That guy over in the field is not one of us.”

So we are starting to have that level of confidence with them that allows us to fight that.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Bachand.

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, I would like to have some details about the 3,200 American soldiers. The Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, made a commitment to send 3,200 soldiers in southern Afghanistan. How long will they be there? Will they be there for 7 months?

4:05 p.m.

BGen P. Atkinson

Yes. They will be there from April to November but 2,200 soldiers will work and fight in the South. The other 1,000 will work in the other districts of Afghanistan with CSTC-A to train the Afghan National Police, the ANP. That would be the second part. One thousand american soldiers will train the ANP and 2,200 will work with us at Regional Command South. Operations are starting today.

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Are the 2,200 soldiers doing combat operations under Canadian command?

4:10 p.m.

BGen P. Atkinson

Yes, at this time, Regional Command South is led by General Marc Lessard. He is the regional CO and he is the one giving orders to all the forces working and operating in the southern region.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

What will happen in November with those additional 1,000 US soldiers? Is the US government going to say that 1,200 have to leave and the other 1,000 have to stay?

4:10 p.m.

BGen P. Atkinson

It is linked to the announcement from the French government. President Sarkozy has decided to send 700 soldiers in the eastern part of Afghanistan, which will free 1,000 who will be able to go to Kandahar with our brigades. The operational details are being developed by the Americans and the other members of the coalition.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

When those details are ready, will you let us know and explain how this will work?

4:10 p.m.

BGen P. Atkinson

Absolutely.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Has the issue of the Afghan policemen's pay been resolved? They were not being paid enough and several were attracted by corruption or were tempted to cooperate with the Taliban.

4:10 p.m.

BGen P. Atkinson

I believe the issue has been partly resolved but I will give you a more definite answer another time.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Next time, could you give us some details about the salary scale of policemen for us to see if progress has been made?

You have referred to the Foster Route but I seem to have read recently that workers have been attacked there. Is that the road where 35 workers would have been killed by the Taliban?

4:10 p.m.

BGen P. Atkinson

That happened in another section of road. I cannot tell you exactly where but Foster Route is one of the most important roads for our forces in the Kandahar District. Each week, there are incidents such as the one you just mentioned.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Those 35 road workers were not killed on Foster Route?

4:10 p.m.

Bgén P. Atkinson

No.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

You know where it happened but you cannot tell me?