Evidence of meeting #24 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aircraft.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

J.P.A. Deschamps  Chief of the Air Staff, Department of National Defence
Dan Ross  Assistant Deputy Minister (Materiel), Department of National Defence
Tom Ring  Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Works and Government Services Canada
Michael Slack  F-35 Project Manager, Director of Continental Materiel Cooperation, Department of National Defence
D.C. Burt  Director, New Generation Fighter Capability, Chief of the Air Staff, Department of National Defence
Ron Parker  Assistant Deputy Minister, Industry Sector, Department of Industry
Paul Kalil  President, Avcorp Industries Inc.
Claude Lajeunesse  President and Chief Executive Officer, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada
J. Richard Bertrand  Vice-President, Government Affairs, Pratt & Whitney Canada
John Siebert  Executive Director, Project Ploughshares
Ken Epps  Senior Program Associate, Project Ploughshares
Robert Huebert  Associate Director, Centre for Military and Strategic Studies, University of Calgary

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is the Standing Committee on National Defence, meeting 24.

We are at the moment short one minister, the Minister of National Defence, the Honourable Peter MacKay. I understand he was to lead off, but we do have two other ministers here, and I'm sure they're quite able to do their presentations.

I'm going to make the ground rules clear so we understand what I'm expecting today. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the next generation of fighter aircraft. That's what the topic is, and that's what we're going to be talking about. If you wander off into other areas, I'll drag you back.

Ministers will have seven minutes. I will notify the minister at six minutes to sum up. I'm hoping to get to three rounds today. Panel one will go from 9 until 11 o'clock. We have another panel that will go from 11 till 1 o'clock, and another panel from 2 until 4 o'clock.

I will give 10 minutes on the first round, five minutes on the second round, and five minutes on the third round. I assume we will have many questions.

This committee is for the members to ask their questions, so I'd like to see as many as we can. In the absence of our chairman, the Honourable Maxime Bernier, I will, as the vice-chair, take the committee today.

Welcome, Minister. Attendance was not taken, but absences were duly noted--but I'm glad you're here.

Minister, you have seven minutes. At six minutes I will intervene and let you know you have a minute to go, and then we'll go to the first round of 10 minutes.

Are there any questions?

As there are none, Minister MacKay, you have the floor.

September 15th, 2010 / 9:05 a.m.

Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative

Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of National Defence

Thank you, Chair, chers collègues. I'm happy to be here to have the opportunity to speak to the government's intention to acquire 65 F-35 Lightning II aircraft to replace our current CF-18 fleet. This will happen by the year 2016; we will begin to receive the aircraft that year.

Two and a half years ago, the Government of Canada released the Canada First defence strategy in Halifax, Nova Scotia. In CFDS we committed to rebuilding the Canadian Forces into a first-class modern military, an integrated, flexible, multi-role, combat-capable military, a military that's able to meet the threats of today and tomorrow.

We identified six key missions for our modernized armed forces: conducting daily domestic and continental operations, supporting a major international event in Canada, responding to a major terrorist attack, supporting civilian authorities during a crisis in Canada, leading or conducting a major international operation for an extended period, and deploying forces in response to crises elsewhere in the world for shorter periods.

Our commitment, colleagues, to procure the F-35 is part of the overall strategy to give the Canadian Forces the tools they need in order to deliver security to Canadians.

This government has already made considerable progress with equipment procurement. We have delivered the C-17 strategic airlifter, which has reliably brought aid and supplies from one corner of the world to the other—be it Alert, Haiti or Afghanistan. We have accepted delivery of our first C-130J tactical transport aircraft, which are preparing to make their operational debut in Afghanistan this winter. We have begun work on recapitalizing our family of land combat vehicles, and our recent announcement of the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy has paved the way for the renewal of the fleet.

And now we are addressing the need for a new fighter aircraft.

Mr. Chair, I welcome the discussion today surrounding the next-generation fighter. Indeed, it's not unlike the debate surrounding the CF-18 announcement in the 1980s. People said the fighter aircraft at that time were unnecessary, but look at what they have done. Look at how they have served us over the past three generations. We bought them to meet the demands of the Cold War, but they have performed admirably, not only in western Europe but during the first Gulf War in 1991 and again in Kosovo in 1999, and in the Canadian skies today, as we sit here.

We have grown to understand the importance of not only having fighter aircraft in our inventory but also of having one that is flexible enough to deal with the threats and the missions that were unexpected at the time in which they were procured. We know that some of the threats faced by the Hornet in the 1980s and 1990s have faded. Others, like the occasional test of our air identification zone by aircraft with strategic capabilities, have in fact persisted. New threats have emerged.

All the while, we know that our force continues to need to be ready. They need to exercise vigilance. While we have carefully invested to help keep our CF-18s remain effective in a challenging and changing environment, we cannot keep them flying indefinitely. We know that buying new fighter aircraft requires considerable investment but will result in major benefits in return to Canada. When we presented the Canada First defence strategy, we knew that, and we determined that notwithstanding the changes in the security environment, this was not a capability that we felt Canada could or should forgo.

An operational gap, I stress, is not an option, because we still need fighters. We still use them every day. They allow us to protect our sovereign territory, our airspace. They enable us to do our part, along with other American allies, as we fly alongside them as part of NORAD. They also allow us to rapidly and effectively project leadership abroad when the call comes.

When we retire the CF-18s between the years 2017 and 2020, as we inevitably must, we will need a capable replacement. The Lightning II joint strike fighters will inherit those key responsibilities and are the ideal aircraft, in my view, to allow our men and women in uniform to accomplish their work.

This is the right plane. This is the right number. This is the right aircraft for our Canadian Forces and for Canada. In fact, it's the best plane for the best air force. We believe they deserve this equipment.

If we don't make this purchase, there is a real danger we'll be unable to defend our airspace, unable to exercise our sovereignty, or unable to share our responsibilities through both NORAD and NATO. I think we can all agree that such a position would be untenable for Canada--a country that spans six time zones, a country whose total area is almost ten million square kilometres, a country with more than 243,000 kilometres of coastline, the world's largest, and a country with numerous international obligations and varied and challenging weather systems. So the government has announced its commitment to acquire the F-35.

As a fifth-generation aircraft, it is the only plane that can fill the requirement laid out in Canada First Defence Strategy. For a next-generation fighter, the F-35 Lightning II is a technological leap. It combines leading-edge attributes, including stealth and advanced sensors, to make this aircraft more reliable, more survivable and more effective than anything else available. It is the only aircraft able to meet all the operational needs of the Canadian Forces.

But that is not all. It is the most affordable option on the market. Its production line will remain open longest—providing excellent support well into the middle of the century. And it will allow us to be seamlessly interoperable with our American and NATO allies long into the future.

It has already generated—and will continue to generate—economic and industrial benefits for Canada as part of a larger global supply chain, which ministers Ambrose and Clement will speak to shortly.

Mr. Chair, let me conclude by saying that Canada needs this aircraft. This is an aircraft that will enable the Canadian Forces to meet the increasingly complex demands of the missions that we ask our pilots to perform. It's a capability that we need for our sovereignty, for patrolling our airspace, and for ensuring that we can shoulder our share of the NATO and international load, and lead by example.

Mr. Chair, colleagues, we have the best sailors, soldiers, and air personnel in the field. They deserve the best equipment to ensure that their missions are a success and, of course, to allow them to come home to their families safe when the job is done.

I look forward to your questions.

Thank you. Merci beaucoup.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

Thank you very much, Minister.

We will now turn to the Honourable Tony Clement, Minister of Industry.

Minister, you have seven minutes.

9:10 a.m.

Parry Sound—Muskoka Ontario

Conservative

Tony Clement ConservativeMinister of Industry

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks for the opportunity to speak today to the committee about the opportunities being made available to Canadian companies.

The JSF is the single largest fighter aircraft program in history. It is a multinational effort to build an affordable, multi-role, and stealthy fighter aircraft. The total value of the program is expected to exceed $383 billion U.S. Total production is expected to reach up to 5,000 aircraft. JSF partner countries are anticipated to acquire more than 3,000 aircraft, and it is forecast that export sales could exceed 2,000 additional aircraft.

Canada has been a participant in the JSF program since 1997. We participated in the extensive competitive process to determine who would produce this next-generation fighter and the ultimate selection of Lockheed Martin as the JSF manufacturer in 2001.

On July 16 our government announced its intention to acquire 65 F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter aircraft to replace our current fleet of CF-18s. Not only are these the right aircraft for the job, but this is the right program to keep Canada at the forefront of the aerospace and defence industry.

By investing in the Joint Strike Fighter program, not only is the government equipping the Canadian Forces with a state-of-the-art aircraft, but it is also opening up unprecedented opportunities for Canada's aerospace industry, including the creation of highly skilled, well-paying jobs for Canadians.

Our participation in this program has our Canadian aerospace industry engaged. This program provides high-tech work and long-term economic opportunities for Canadian aerospace and defence companies from all regions of the country. The program is truly unique in terms of the access offered to Canadian industry to participate in the production and sustainment of this volume of aircraft. The scope is tremendous. Canadian companies will have an opportunity to provide products and services for not only Canada's fleet of 65 fighters but for the entire global JSF supply chain. With that work involving as many as 5,000 aircraft, this opportunity will create and sustain jobs across Canada over the 40-year proposed lifetime of the F-35 aircraft.

In 2006 all nine JSF partners agreed that best value and affordability would be a key element in the success of the JSF program. This drive for competitiveness, along with the scale and international nature of the program, led to a unique industrial participation approach. Canada's commitment to this JSF gives Canadian companies privileged access to work on this project along with the other JSF partners. This means that as the JSF moves toward full production, Canadian firms will be even better positioned to supply components for the purchases of all JSF partners. This opportunity has been secured as a direct result of Canada's early and continued commitment to the program.

The Joint Strike Fighter program provides unprecedented opportunities to Canadian businesses, which can begin to carve out a place for themselves in the global supply chain that will shape the aerospace and defence sectors over the next 40 years.

Thanks to industrial agreements with Lockheed Martin, Pratt & Whitney Canada and General Electric/Rolls-Royce, Canadian-produced parts will be used in the construction of F-35 airplanes. These Canadian suppliers will also be called upon to provide maintenance throughout the useful life of the airplanes.

Canadian businesses will be able to bid on F-35 maintenance contracts, for both Canada's fleet and those of our partners. This will mean direct economic investment as well as new jobs for Canada.

It was critical to make this commitment right away, so that Canadian aerospace companies could take advantage of the tremendous opportunities under this program. This will give the country's suppliers enough time to prepare for production, support and subsequent development phases.

In order to facilitate the JSF program industrial participation approach, the federal government has already signed industrial participation plans with each of the JSF prime contractors: Lockheed Martin, Pratt & Whitney, and GE Rolls-Royce Fighter Engine Team. These agreements allow us to identify opportunities for Canadian companies to develop technologies for the JSF program.

I'll give you an example. Honeywell, based in Mississauga, designed the JSF thermal management system, and NGRAIN in Vancouver, B.C., developed the 3-D visualization tools for the JSF. The industrial participation plans include guaranteed access to competitive opportunities within the JSF partnership. Our highly capable companies will compete for work in areas such as high-speed titanium machining of complex parts. As a matter of fact, Héroux-Devtek, a company visited by Minister Ambrose yesterday in Dorval, Quebec, has been awarded contracts to perform the machining of various JSF parts.

The plan also includes strategic opportunities awarded to Canadian companies that are determined to offer the best value to the program. We see these strategic opportunities turning into contracts at Canadian companies such as Avcorp, which is building wing-tip structures in Delta, B.C.; Bristol Aerospace, which is building horizontal tail structures in Winnipeg; Goodrich, in Burlington, Ontario, which will be conducting landing gear maintenance; and Composites Atlantic, which will be manufacturing composite fuselage parts in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia.

Moving forward, the Government of Canada will be working closely with Lockheed Martin and the other JSF primes to identify further opportunities for potential Canadian suppliers and receive updates as the total benefit to Canada obtained through our participation in the JSF program goes forward.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

You have one minute.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Thank you.

In conclusion, then, Mr. Chair, let me just say that experts have estimated that over $12 billion in potential industrial opportunities exist for Canadian companies to deliver the partner aircraft fleet. Non-partner acquisitions, such as Israel's, for instance, will result in further benefits to Canadian companies. The economic impact of this program will be felt across Canada in every region.

Mr. Chair, put simply, the JSF program brings significant benefits to Canada and Canadians. It gives Canadians a rare opportunity to take part in a truly global supply chain that will define business relationships in the aerospace and defence sectors for the next 40 years. Certainly this is of great value to Canadian industry, and certainly there will be significant industrial and economic opportunities presented to Canada and Canadian industry in the years ahead.

Thank you.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

Thank you very much, Minister.

We will now turn to the Honourable Rona Ambrose, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for Status of Women.

Minister, welcome. You have seven minutes.

9:20 a.m.

Edmonton—Spruce Grove Alberta

Conservative

Rona Ambrose ConservativeMinister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for Status of Women

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's a pleasure to be here, and I should note I am joined by my ADM of acquisitions, Tom Ring. It's a great opportunity to address this committee to talk about the replacement of Canada's CF-18 fighter aircraft in 2016-17.

As Minister MacKay noted, in 1997 Canada became a partner in the joint strike fighter program, and as a part of that program Canada participated in a lengthy competitive process. It was headed by the United States, including a concept demonstration phase, which led to the selection of Lockheed Martin as the JSF supplier in 2001. Since joining the program, the Government of Canada has contributed to the design, development, and demonstration of the joint strike fighter aircraft.

Two years ago our government, as part of the Canada First defence strategy, made a commitment to acquire a next-generation fighter to replace the CF-18. Following on its participation in the joint strike fighter program and its commitments under the Canada First defence strategy, the Government of Canada announced on July 16 its intention to procure 65 F-35 Lightning II aircraft. Deliveries are expected to start in 2016. Canada's purchase of the F-35, the only next-generation fighter that is available to Canada, will ensure interoperability with our major allies well into the middle of this century. In fact, almost all of our key allies are partners in the JSF program and many have committed to acquiring the F-35.

By making this decision now, the Department of National Defence is able to start planning for the introduction and use of the aircraft in Canada. Most importantly, Canada's acquisition of the F-35 is a good news story for Canada's defence industry. Because of our commitment to purchase the aircraft, Canadian aerospace and defence sectors gain immediate priority access to bid for contracts for the entire F-35 global supply chain, estimated at as many as 5,000 planes.

This will mean the creation of high-tech, high-value jobs for Canadians over a long period of time right across the country. In fact within this global supply chain, Canadian industry is very well positioned towards approximately $12 billion in targeted opportunities, representing more than 65,000 man-hours of work.

Canada's participation in the program is already paying off. Canadian companies have been competing for contracts within the program, and they have demonstrated considerable success. On July 21, just a week after our announcement, Avcorp announced the signing of an agreement with BAE Systems Operations Limited for the production of the outboard wing for the carrier variant of the F-35 used by the U.S. Navy. This agreement may represent in excess of $500 million U.S. in revenues over 10 to 15 years of production, and approximately 75 direct and indirect jobs will be created by this contract at Avcorp.

Avcorp Industries, based in Delta, British Columbia, is only one example that clearly demonstrates that the joint strike fighter program brings significant benefits to Canada and Canadian industry. In total, 85 Canadian companies have won approximately $850 million in contracts through our commitment to the program thus far, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. A tremendous door of opportunity has been opened for Canadian companies because of our decision to purchase these planes. If our commitment were revoked, this enormous door of opportunity would be slammed shut in the face of Canadian industry.

The JSF program is the right program to keep Canada's aerospace sector competitive well into the 21st century.

Canada's participation in the Joint Strike Fighter program opens up significant opportunities for the Canadian industry, and especially that of Quebec. Canada's industry will be able to participate fully in the program, which will help to build long-term business relationships in the aerospace and defence sectors. For instance, the head of Héroux-Devtek, an aerospace company with plants in Dorval, Longueuil, Laval, Kitchener and Toronto, told me yesterday that a successful bid could help generate 20 to 25 years worth of work for its staff.

Critics often cite unreasonable delays in the military procurement process as a key factor affecting the operational capability of the Canadian Forces. The joint strike fighter program is a prime example of how the government can procure the right equipment at the right time for our forces. By participating in a program designed to permit NATO allies to acquire advanced fighter technology at the lowest possible cost, the government is also ensuring that Canadian taxpayers receive the best return on their investment.

This announcement is also another indication that our government is committed to rebuilding the Canadian Forces and ensuring Canada's future safety and security while delivering, as Minister Clement said, on long-term economic benefits to our key industrial sectors.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd be pleased to take questions.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

Thank you very much, Minister.

I thank all three ministers for their presentations and for keeping within the time limit.

Minister MacKay.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, I neglected, in my introduction, to introduce to the committee General André Deschamps, who is Chief of the Air Staff and himself an ex-fighter pilot.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

I was just going to do that, Minister, and actually the Chief of the Air Staff will be our witness in the next session. Thank you very much.

Ladies and gentlemen, the rounds that follow will be ten minutes. I would ask that both the questioner and the respondent be as succinct as possible. We're not at a hockey game, so we don't want to drag the puck here. We want to get as many questions and answers on the table as possible.

We're going to start with the Honourable Dominic LeBlanc.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wouldn't presume to correct the chair, but I think Mr. MacKay would agree that it's actually not “drag the puck”. I think “rag the puck” is the term you're looking for.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

But in my part of the country, it's dragging the puck.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Okay, but in Atlantic Canada--the Minister of Defence and I know--it's called ragging the puck.

Madam Minister, Mr. Ministers, thank you for your presentations.

I have a rather specific question for my friend, Minister Clement, and then I think my colleague will continue with someone else.

Mr. Clement, you admit that this is the largest military procurement contract in Canadian history. Not only did you not hold a competitive bidding process in Canada for the contract, but, in our view, you also turned your back on Canada's aerospace industry. In the past, a contract of this nature included contractual benefits for the industry. Dollar for dollar, the company that won the process had a contractual obligation to spend that amount in partnership with Canada's aerospace industry. Since the total value of this contract could reach $9 billion—and, may I add, you cited numerous examples of Canadian companies, and we are delighted that they have been able to participate in the program thus far—why do you or did you not ultimately insist on a legal contractual obligation that would require Lockheed Martin, for instance, to spend that amount in partnership with the Canadian industry? In our view, you failed to impose a contractual obligation on the company to spend that amount.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Thank you for the opportunity to respond. I would like to say a few words about the supply chain.

It's important to understand that all of the allies who were involved in developing the program have agreed that there will be competitive bidding by the subcontractors to build the plane, so no country is going to have automatic offsets in this model. But what you lose there, you gain with the global supply chain. Instead of forcing, through offsets, a dollar-for-dollar account, as the honourable member has suggested, for the 65 planes that Canada is ordering, you in turn get to bid, as a Canadian contractor, for the 3,000 planes that are part of the alliance that is building the plane, plus the other 2,000 planes, so a total of 5,000 planes that are going to be ordered throughout the world.

That's the upside. The upside is you're part of the global supply chain. You're not building for 65. You might be building for 5,000 planes over the next 40 years, and that is a very positive upside.

I've talked to our industry, and our industry has told me they're ready to compete. They want to compete. They will win the contracts. They are winning the contracts. They're already doing so. Avcorp is a good example, with that $500-million contract the week after we announced that we're in for the F-35s.

So yes, it's different from your normal procurement, but the difference is a positive difference in our access for our great Canadian aerospace companies to the global supply chain.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

I'd remind both Mr. LeBlanc and the minister that the questions and answers go through the chair.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Certainly, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, then, through you to the minister, why not then insist, in the ultimate contract, on having a minimum of $9 billion of participation in the global supply chain? If the Government of Israel was able to get a binding commitment for potentially buying fewer aircraft, I think perhaps it would have been better for your government to insist that there be a floor. I agree with you; our industry can certainly compete with other allies. Why not put a floor?

And, Minister, is there not an issue around Canadian sovereignty with respect to a global supply chain? Some observers I have seen have indicated that perhaps there can be a ceding of sovereignty if we don't ensure that a certain aspect of the supply chain in fact remains Canadian.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Why no floor? Nobody's getting a floor. And in fact Israel's not getting the offset; I'm not going to pass comment on Israeli media, but they're just not getting the offset you're suggesting they are.

Nobody's getting a floor. Everyone has to compete. That's the same for American companies, the same for British companies, and anyone else who's part of the alliance that is building this.

I wouldn't settle for $9 billion. You talk about dollar-for-dollar; the current calculations, based on the agreements that we struck with the primes, are that Canadian companies could get up to $12 billion worth of supply, of contracts.

So I think that's the upside, because Canadian companies can punch above their weight and they can compete in the international chain. That's what we expect to occur.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

Mr. LeBlanc, you have four minutes and twenty seconds.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Chair, my colleague is going to follow up.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Bryon Wilfert

Mr. Simms.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ministers.

Minister Ambrose, I'd like to ask you particularly about the sole-sourcing of this contract. Why would you proceed in this way, to use sole-sourcing as the way of getting this contract?

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Rona Ambrose Conservative Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There are two reasons why we decided to acquire the F-35 through the joint strike fighter MOU rather than competing something that's already been competed. The first reason is that the Canada First defence strategy two years ago committed us to purchasing a next-generation fighter. So the defence department and Public Works research has confirmed that there is only one next-generation fighter available for purchase by Canada.

As you know, the procurement process does not drive the requirements; the requirements drive the procurement process. So in accordance with government procurement guidelines, competitions do not need to be held when there is only one product available that meets the requirements set by the client. In practice we do not run competitions when this is the case, as, frankly, it would be dishonest. It would be a waste of time and a waste of resources.

The Canada First defence strategy clearly laid out two years ago in a public document that the air force required a next-generation fighter. Since then we have done extensive research to ensure that the F-35 is the only next-generation fighter available to us for purchase.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

But my understanding is that this was a decision, according to your testimony, that was done back in 2001. I mean, this decision was done long ago on this particular one. I think in this particular situation...because it seems to me, before you made the announcement, that the talk has been about open and fair competition. The minister mentioned it. You mentioned it with fixed-wing search and rescue, which is still ongoing, and now this particular situation as well.

So why would you be talking about an open and fair competition to procure these elements of our air force when in fact the decision was made several years ago?

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Rona Ambrose Conservative Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB

Well, there has been, as you allude to, complete transparency. First of all, there was a competition. When you look at the history of the joint strike fighter program, Canada entered into the program in 1997, in fact under a Liberal program.