Evidence of meeting #31 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jill Sinclair  Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Department of National Defence
Kerry Buck  Assistant Deputy Minister, International Security Branch and Political Director, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Marie Gervais-Vidricaire  Director General, Stabilization and Reconstruction Task Force, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Good morning, everyone. We're going to continue with our study on readiness of the Canadian Forces, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2).

We have joining us today as witnesses, from the Department of National Defence, Jill Sinclair, assistant deputy minister, policy; and from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, Kerry Buck, who is the assistant deputy minister, international security branch and political director. She is joined by Marie Gervais-Vidricaire, director general, stabilization and reconstruction task force. Welcome, ladies.

I'll allow you each to have 10 minutes to make your opening comments.

Ms. Sinclair, you have the floor.

11 a.m.

Jill Sinclair Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Department of National Defence

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair. Good morning, committee members. It's my pleasure to be back here.

Welcome.

Thanks for the opportunity to be here, along with my colleagues from Foreign Affairs, for your continuing study on CF readiness.

Over the course of your study, I know you've heard from a number of senior Canadian Forces personnel and officers about what readiness means from a military perspective: from generating capabilities, to employing them on operations, to coordinating the training and maintenance to keep the forces agile and flexible when needed.

I hope that this wealth of information—in particular the testimony of the Chief and Vice Chief of the Defence Staff—has served to cement a few key points about readiness for the committee members.

I hope that you heard that readiness is a distinct endeavour. It's a specific activity.

Readiness is a complex undertaking. Being ready requires preparation for a range of eventualities, such as how quickly we need to respond, on what scale, with what tools, and for how long. Determining and shaping readiness is all about whole-of-government, shared awareness, and understanding of the broad strategic environment.

For the Department of National Defence and the CF, the broad policy context for readiness is captured in the Canada First defence strategy. I know you've heard quite a bit about this from other witnesses here.

The CFDS establishes the government's level of readiness ambition by providing clear direction for the CF on the missions they must be prepared to conduct. It lays out the three main roles for the military, which are to defend Canada, to be a strong and reliable partner in the defence of North America, and to project global leadership abroad by contributing to international peace and security.

The strategy also describes the essential day-to-day missions the CF needs to perform, as well as the flexibility they need to maintain in order to perform a broad range of challenges.

Specifically, the government bases its investments in—and expectations of—the Canadian Forces on the ability to perform any and all of the following core missions, at times simultaneously if required.

This includes conducting daily domestic and continental operations, such as through the North American Aerospace Defence Command; supporting a major international event in Canada, such as the Vancouver Olympics in 2010; responding to a major terrorist attack; supporting civilian authorities during a crisis in Canada, including natural disasters; leading and/or conducting a major international operation for an extended period of time, such as in Afghanistan; or deploying forces in response to crises elsewhere for shorter periods.

This is a pretty broad range of requirements that we have from the Canadian Forces. I think it's fair to say that, by any measure, it's been fulfilled exceptionally by the CF in the very challenging period since CFDS was first released in 2008. When General Natynczyk was here, he used the example of 2010 to lay out how the CF had been performing those tasks simultaneously, as I think he talked about. He explained about Kandahar, our folks carrying out major operations in support of the Vancouver Olympics, and also about being able to deliver supplies and personnel to Haiti in less than 24 hours in the wake of that massive earthquake.

In a similar fashion, I just mentioned spring of last year. Even while the Canadian Forces were essentially carrying out three operations in Afghanistan: the close-out of combat, the massive logistical move of equipment and personnel, and the stand-up of our training mission in the north, we were still able to play a leading role in Libya, as well as to respond to significant natural disasters in Manitoba, Quebec, and Ontario. It's a very impressive track record.

This level of success is the result of several factors. First, it's the product of planning, prioritization, and recapitalization. I think my military colleagues have walked you through that in some detail.

Second, it's the reflection of the effectiveness of an integrated defence team, where Canadian Forces personnel and DND civilian personnel work side by side as an integrated defence team.

Third, it is the result of our defence team's contribution to whole-of-government approaches to missions at home and abroad, whether it's working with Public Safety and its agencies on floods and forest fires or working with colleagues at Foreign Affairs and International Trade on global engagement issues.

Finally, it's about being an effective global partner. That includes through the UN, NORAD, NATO, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, in the Americas, Asia-Pacific, the Middle East, and elsewhere.

In order to support that level of global engagement, we know that being ready means developing real global partnerships and an understanding of the global environment. That's a lot of the role that the policy group plays within National Defence. In National Defence we have a network of more than 30 defence attachés covering more than 140 different countries as part of Canada's overall presence abroad, using the extraordinary offices and instruments of our Canadian embassies.

We have a military training and cooperation program, which, through an interdepartmental process, sets priorities aligned with foreign policy objectives, and it lets us target training to build capacity and relationships with around 60 countries.

We also have a wide range of military-to-military exchanges and engagements, whether it's through the Royal Canadian Navy, the Royal Canadian Air Force, the Canadian Army, and even through our Judge Advocate General and our Chief of Military Personnel. We ensure that we use all of our instruments of defence relations to enhance our ability to be ready to act where and when we need to.

As I've mentioned, I think the Canadian Forces' track record speaks for itself in terms of our readiness at home and abroad and how we work as an integrated whole-of-government team.

I'll be happy to answer your questions.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you, Ms. Sinclair.

Ms. Buck, you have ten minutes, please.

11:05 a.m.

Kerry Buck Assistant Deputy Minister, International Security Branch and Political Director, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee.

Many of today's most pressing security concerns are the result of civil wars and civil unrest within states or regions, which are often compounded by state fragility. By state fragility I mean a state's incapacity or lack of will to maintain a rule of law and to provide core services to its population.

Fragility affects roughly 15% of states—a population of some one billion. The human impact can be terrible. Fragile states are often conduits for transnational organized crime, piracy, terrorism, arms proliferation, and the violent targeting of vulnerable populations. State fragility also costs the international system; the estimates are some $270 billion annually.

When the Government of Canada decides to respond to such insecurity, it draws on a range of tools. The tools that my department contributes include the following: diplomatic engagement through preventative diplomacy and mediation efforts; support for economic sanctions, including export controls; the deployment of civilians and, at times, military experts bilaterally in areas such as elections' monitoring; legal and constitutional reform; policing; borders; corrections; the training of foreign military forces; and, finally, financial and expert support to international peace operations.

Across this spectrum, from soft security to hard security engagements, cooperation with DND is absolutely integral to our efforts. We've learned that responding to conflicts almost always requires a multi-dimensional approach, close civilian and military cooperation.

Let's talk about a vital lesson we learned in Afghanistan. We, the local team, on a personal basis, and Canada, as a government, have learned a lot about integrating civilian and military engagements in fragile states and states in conflict, such as Afghanistan, post-earthquake Haiti and the two Sudans. We also learned about the importance of cohesive and coordinated efforts, especially in the context of Afghanistan, as I just mentioned.

Afghanistan led us to develop shared strategic priorities with very specific parameters for the first time. Through joint planning, leadership, intelligence sharing—in Ottawa as well as in Afghanistan, including the south, in Kandahar—resource allocation and communications, we developed a single, completely integrated strategy. In addition, joint training and pre-deployment exercises increased considerably over the course of Canada's engagement in Kandahar. They helped introduce the key players to each other and bridge institutional cultures.

We have learned many lessons in Afghanistan, and those lessons are ongoing. Our coordinated civilian-military efforts continue to support the development of the Afghan security forces, as Canada is the second-largest contributor to the NATO Training Mission Afghanistan, providing both military and civilian police trainers.

In the case of peace operations, another example is that the engagement of civilian experts alongside defence personnel can make a critical difference. I'll give you some examples. Civilian experts help build host governments' capacity for security, governance, economic development, and the establishment of the rule of law, so they can get at the root causes of the insecurity, but they can also work alongside military to address the impacts of state fragility. We currently deploy Canadian government personnel to eight UN peace operations, with a total, as of February 28, of 42 military, 164 police, and 17 corrections experts. These are just the UN peace operations, and it excludes ISAF, etc.

Foreign Affairs works closely with partners, notably National Defence, RCMP, Corrections, and Justice, and we do that to coordinate deployments in a way that identifies special skills that Canadians bring to the table. It matches those skills with the core functions of the mission. So we're bringing something special, a special interest, a special niche, to the table.

One example is in the Democratic Republic of Congo where Canadian civilian experts work alongside the UN mission to give technical assistance to Congolese military and civilian authorities to investigate and prosecute war crimes and crimes against humanity, including sexual violence.

As one of the top 10 financial contributors to the UN peacekeeping budget, we've got a strong interest in ensuring proper training, coordination, and burden-sharing to make these UN multi-dimensional operations as effective as possible. We do that through a number of modalities, and we can talk about that in the question period. They include financial support of civilian deployments, as I said.

One of the key tools that we use to address fragility is our international security programming. We manage it in Foreign Affairs, but we do it with the rest of government by deploying experts across government, as I said. So we focus on state security and justice sectors, clearing and containing weapons of mass destruction, training police and border guards, and helping support citizens' rights to redress injustice. Those will help prevent conflict, but in a post-conflict environment those are also important tools to stabilize.

Let me give you a couple of examples and I'll finish, Mr. Chair.

The Americas, Haiti, Central America, and Colombia, are top priorities for our engagement on security for a number of reasons. There's a direct impact on Canadian security interests. A lot of the transnational organized crime issues that are in Central America make their way to Canadian borders. It also poses a risk to Canadian economic and security interests in those regions. It's also part of our burden-sharing with Mexico and the U.S., with this important partnership that we need to maintain.

A second example is in the Middle East and North Africa and the transitions in the Arab world over the past year. We've responded through diplomacy and programming, in addition to some of the military interventions in Libya, which we can talk about as well. But as a corollary to that, throughout the region we're supporting a range of weapons of mass destruction threat reduction programming, in Libya, for instance, and chemical weapons destruction.

Finally, let's talk about cooperation in terms of foreign affairs and defence.

As I mentioned in the introduction, our close cooperation with the Department of National Defence is a key element of our department's engagement in security matters, but also of the whole spectrum of security considerations.

In Libya, to get a political consensus amongst 28 allies and to bring military authorities to plan and deploy recent military assets in record time required extremely tight coordination. As I said, the NATO response to Libya was absolutely done in record time. Another example—we'll get into it in questions—was the response to the Haiti quake. It was fully integrated. The quake hit at five-something in the afternoon. The next morning at seven we had a fully integrated team at Trenton ready to get on a plane to go south—a fully integrated team. There are a few other examples.

In conclusion, we work alongside National Defence. The way we put it is we live in each other's business lines, and this has been something that's developed over the last while. There's always more room to improve, and we're always improving, but we're living in each other's business lines now. It's not just us in Defence, but it goes across the gamut of security institutions with intelligence, RCMP, corrections, etc. This is at the core of what we're doing. It maps out in our bilateral engagements and in our multilateral engagements.

Thank you very much.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you. I appreciate your opening comments. I know we're going to have some interesting discussions.

On a point of order, Mr. McKay.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, before we go to questioning—and I apologize for not raising this earlier, but as you saw, I came in a bit late—I am given to understand that by virtue of the business of supply and the ordering of supply days, the vote on supplementary estimates (C) will take place on Monday in the House. We are not scheduled to see the ministers until Tuesday.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

My understanding is we had to report the supplementary estimates (C) back, and correct me if I'm wrong.... It was yesterday? Did they change to Monday? I originally thought it was going to be Wednesday. That's what we were told. It's three days.

Okay, you are correct.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

It renders our examination of supplementary estimates (C) moot, shall we say.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Well, we're tacking on the main estimates as well on Tuesday.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Yes, but the main estimates don't tell the story. I'm not quite sure what to do with it, but I just want to confirm that. It may be that we should have a bit of a private conversation about what it is we want to do with Tuesday. As I say, the business will be done by Monday night. Maybe we should have an offline conversation; I would offer at the end of this meeting, but I have further conflicts of interest. Maybe we could talk about this.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay.

Are there comments?

Mr. Alexander.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

On that point of order, Chair, I thank Mr. McKay for raising that. On our side, and I think it goes for all of us, we were absolutely unaware of that. We had been given to understand that these votes would take place on March 15 and that our scheduling of the time with the ministers would be in advance.

So apologies for not having been aware of that, and we should have an offline conversation.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Are there any comments?

Madame Moore.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

We could perhaps deal with the point of order in subcommittee. I could replace Mr. Christopherson so that we can look into this issue. If everyone agrees, we could consider this at the end of the meeting, in subcommittee.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

I'm seeing consensus, so I'll save 15 minutes at the end of the meeting.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Well, that leaves me in a conflict of interest because I have two events, and I was actually going to have to leave the meeting early. I don't want to hold up the business of the committee, but I do—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

What time are you taking off, John?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

I'm hosting a meeting at 12 and I'm supposed to be attending another meeting also at 12. It should be formal, but on the other hand, it doesn't have to be formal. We could probably meet between, say, one and question period, or just before question period, to talk about how we want to handle this.

There's the immediate issue of what we do Tuesday morning, but there's the larger issue that this just makes the committee decoration. We're going to have no examination of the supplementary estimates (C).

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

We'll make a point to do that before QP. We'll find David. He's in the House anyway. You and I, Chris, and Cheryl will sit down quickly and have a pow-wow. That sounds good.

Sorry about that. We'll move on.

Ms. Moore, you have the floor.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Thank you very much.

I don't know whether it was intentional or not, but I think it's really nice to have three female experts today, International Women's Day. I don't know whether the subcommittee planned that. If so, I commend it.

I would like to keep my comments in the same vein and talk about a women's issue that has not been discussed much thus far. One of the lessons we learned in Afghanistan is that there is a woman's world to which male soldiers don't necessarily have access. Interactions with civilians, either in combat or humanitarian missions, led to the realization that, in some cultures, the world of women was truly reserved for women. For instance, the men who intervened could not gather accounts of what was really happening in the field. That's something to keep in mind.

I would like to know whether armed forces, in their current state of readiness, are aware of the need for enough female members. Has that idea been incorporated so as to ensure effective interventions in other countries?

11:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Department of National Defence

Jill Sinclair

Mr. Chair,

thank you for the question.

I think Canada, in fact, and the CF lead the way in terms of having women integrated into the CF to begin with. If we look at the operations we've conducted in the south, and even our training now, we've had women who are specialists in civil-military interface, and they've gone into the communities and they've engaged with women specifically. Your question was whether we have enough women to be effective. I think we have them deployed in the right areas.

I'm at a little bit of a loss here because I would want to have one of my military colleagues from the strategic joint staff answer that in detail for you, and I'm very happy to get those numbers for you.

But certainly in terms of the operations, women are fully integrated throughout the Canadian Forces—which is still pretty unique, even in the NATO family—and deployed in every imaginable way on every mission, whether it's in Haiti for disaster relief or in Afghanistan for training purposes. I feel fairly confident in saying yes.

I don't know if Foreign Affairs would like to add to that.

11:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, International Security Branch and Political Director, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Kerry Buck

When it comes to ensuring that there is an awareness of the differential impact of conflict on women, when we go and work with UN peacekeeping operations, other military interventions, and also some of the softer security interventions, we do a few things through our programming. We work with partners on this, obviously.

We do training of peacekeeping troops to ensure they understand women's human rights perspective in what they're doing and how international humanitarian law ensures protection of civilians from that perspective of women's human rights.

We do training of judges and police, so when prosecutions happen after the fact—post-conflict and that kind of thing—they understand the differential impact on women. This has been embedded in our programming for quite a while.

We do embedding of gender monitors into peace support operations, etc. We have a women, peace, and security action plan that the Government of Canada adopted a year ago, which Marie can speak to briefly if you wish.

It's a whole range of actions to ensure that women's perspective and the different impact of conflict on women and the state fragility on women is better understood and that we have active, concrete tools to respond to it.

11:20 a.m.

Marie Gervais-Vidricaire Director General, Stabilization and Reconstruction Task Force, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Thank you for the question. It is especially timely and appropriate.

I just want to add that we do have a Canadian national action plan, as you know. The Department of Foreign Affairs is in charge of coordinating the plan's implementation, along with the Department of National Defence, the RCMP, the Correctional Service of Canada and the departments that deploy people abroad.

The Department of Foreign Affairs will also coordinate the preparation of the initial report on the plan's implementation. It should be ready in September. The department has emphasized training. For instance, four pilot project courses have been tested. The purpose of those courses is to educate all department officers—especially the ones involved in START, of course—on the issue of women in the analysis of all the projects planned for implementation. We also have a civilian protection course for all department officers posted in fragile countries. That course obviously covers resolution 1325. We also continue to chair the Friends of 1325 group in New York.

Our permanent mission is very active when it comes to intelligence sharing with other countries that are interested in those issues. We share experiences, information, lessons learned, and so on. Many activities are ongoing. When our minister of foreign affairs went to Afghanistan, for instance, he took the time to meet with women to discuss their particular viewpoints. The same was done in Libya. So, there are activities on several levels. We hope all that will be properly captured in our September report.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Okay.

I have two more questions.

Is there any specific training for female military members who will have to intervene with women in the countries requiring army involvement? Are they provided with any special training?

In addition, is the need for military women assessed prior to Canada's intervention in another country? In other words, is it decided whether any military member may intervene in a given zone or whether it would be better to use women to make the intervention more effective? Is that kind of assessment made to decide whether female military members are needed on site?

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Department of National Defence

Jill Sinclair

Thanks for the follow-up question.

Cultural training for the Canadian Forces at large is a central part of the pre-deployment phase of their preparation. Whether it's for female members of the Canadian Forces or male members of the Canadian Forces, there really is.... Again, I think Canada has a bit of the gold standard in terms of cultural preparation for these sorts of missions abroad. The complexities, whether they happen to be gender-based or if you are going to be encountering child soldiers, or if you're looking at religious differences and sensitivities...this really is integrated into the staff training school from the very beginning of the training. When it's mission-specific, it is very focused.

In this situation you can only have women going into these sorts of areas to perform these sorts of tasks. I think the success of our mission in Afghanistan, whether combat or training, where we still have 950 folks out every day doing training, attests to that. We have been very welcomed. We've had great relationships at the tribal levels and with the elders. I think it's because of our sense of respect and dignity that we bring in the preparation of our folks before they go in.

Obviously we worked very closely in a whole-of-government setting. This isn't just the military. There is a civil-military side of this. We have the Foreign Affairs and the CIDA people, and they work as a joined-up team. They certainly have done so in Afghanistan, and I think that's a model for future interventions.