National Defence Committee on Feb. 25th, 2013

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

This suggestion being made suggests it is inconsistent with other parts of the act. The next amendment, NDP-4, amends section 29.11 and says “Except in the case of a grievance considered and determined by the Grievances Committee, the Chief of the Defence Staff is the”.

These two amendments go together. They are numbered separately, but their going together would establish the Grievances Committee.

We had to do one first. We could combine them as one amendment, but the fact of the matter is NDP-3, which deals with section 29.101, and NDP-4, which deals with the consequences of section 29.11...so that's a consequential amendment to the first one.

I would submit that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I've been advised that proposed section 29.11 has already been determined to be inadmissible, and based upon the linkage you just made as well as the comment made by Mr. Alexander that NDP-3, the amendment to clause 6, section 29.101, of the National Defence Act is also outside of the scope of the bill since the Chief of the Defence Staff is the final authority for all grievances and not only some of them.

You can't replace the Chief of the Defence Staff with the grievances committee since that would be contradictory to the bill, so I'm ruling it inadmissible.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Is it contradictory to the bill or outside the scope of the bill because the scope of the bill deals with the powers of the Chief of the Defence Staff, and we're amending the powers of the Chief of the Defence Staff by saying that...?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

But you're replacing him as the authority here. You're making it so that the grievances committee is replacing the Chief of the Defence Staff.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

In the case of military judges....

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

No. It's against the principle of the bill.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So the principle of the bill is regardless of whether it's unconstitutional or it will be ruled unconstitutional that we can't amend it to fix it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

That's not our place at this level. There is the scope and purpose and principle of the bill that's before us, and this changes that dramatically so I'm ruling it inadmissible. That same logic applies to NDP-4.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I'm looking at the numbers, Chair. I don't know if a motion to overrule the chair is in order. It might be in order, but it may not be....

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

If you want, I'll read it right now.

“Decisions by the Chair are not debatable.” See page 1049, chapter 20 of O'Brien and Bosc, our rules and procedures that govern us as a committee and as members of Parliament. You can appeal to the full committee. If you are appealing to the committee that you don't agree with the decision of the chair, then I'm going to ask that the decision of the chair be sustained: that this amendment is inadmissible.

All those in favour?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

There's no appeal to the chair. I'm not seeing any nods over on the other side.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay. My ruling stands.

NDP-3 and NDP-4 on those same points I just made are ruled out of order.

We're back on clause 6, unamended.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

No, sir, there's another amendment, NDP-5.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Amendment NDP-5 first. Okay, so we're at amendment NDP-5.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I'd like to move amendment NDP-5.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order.

Could you give the longer number, because I think they're reversed in some?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay.

Amendment NDP-5 is reference number 5944209. I know this package was just circulated.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Yes, we're all scrambling a little bit, so I hope the chair will have some patience on that—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay, I do. So we're at amendment NDP-5.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

—and we'll have patience with the chair.

So amendment NDP-5—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

It's in order, so if you want to move it to the floor, go ahead.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

This one is in order, that's good to hear.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Yes.

I think in the last committee it was ruled out of order, but I'm ruling it in order. That one was a part of Bill C-41.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So amendment NDP-6 changes—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Amendment NDP-5—