National Defence Committee on May 27th, 2014

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

First of all, any time there is an accusation of an offence, a service offence or any other type of offence, including sexual misconduct, it's investigated either by the chain of command itself, or in sensitive cases and important cases by the national investigation service. Once the investigation is complete, they then look at the evidence and determine if charges are to be laid. That's in consultation with legal officers who work for me at local bases and wings.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much, General.

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

Okay, we'll get back to it after.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

In fairness, we have to move on to the next questioner, but you can, as I mentioned before, respond more fully in writing to the committee.

Mr. Miller, for five minutes.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you very much, and to our witnesses, thank you for being here and thank you for your service to the country.

I have the base Meaford training centre in my riding and, obviously, a lot of military presence there. We much appreciate what you do.

Regarding the culture that is talked about in the article that was referred to earlier and what have you, the people who write some of these stories basically try to imply that there is a culture out there, while there may, in my opinion, be a culture with some individuals, the same as in any group in society.

Could you speak a little on that? Do you think it's actually a culture? I think I know what the answer is, but I'd like to hear your response.

[MGen David Millar]

Thank you, sir, very much.

Within the Canadian Forces, as we mentioned we're a very proud institution that defines itself with the highest ethical and moral standards. That is institutionalized through our defence ethics program, and indeed transcends through the government and the Treasury Board guidelines, which dictate how that environment will be constructed and the manner in which we treat the men and women in the Canadian Armed Forces.

That program includes policies, leadership, engagement, training, and all the necessary structures that allow for a culture such that any of us should not feel prevented from voicing our opinion, from voicing our concerns. Indeed that is the environment that we have created.

A recent internal investigation that was conducted showed that, yes, we have the policies, the procedures, the practices, the training in place, yet it is very apparent that there are barriers that still exist. Those barriers are the fear of reprisal, and the reassurance that there will be a consistent action taken regardless of the situation that is reported. Those are the sorts of issues need to focus on.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you.

You talked about reprisal, and that leads right into my second question on reporting. I wonder if you have any figures on the percentage of allegations of sexual harassment or assault—committed or alleged to be committed—by commanding officers versus just fellow members of the military. Is there any documentation or figure on that?

[MGen David Millar]

Did you want to comment?

[Col Robert P. Delaney]

Mr. Chair, thanks for that question.

Certainly, that's data we could drill down and extrapolate based on who the subject is, but we haven't done that analysis per se with that focus in mind. Certainly my experience has been, over the 26 years I've been in this business, that it's not a significant preponderance of the cases we've dealt with.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Sure, and I think it's probably been discussed enough here today. I think there's always that fear of reprisal for the victim when it's a commanding officer.

[Col Robert P. Delaney]

Correct.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

That's really why I asked that.

My last question is on military family resource groups. I think most bases have them. I know we have a very active one in my area. I'm very supportive of them and what they do. Is there a role that these groups can play? I know they were initiated to help returning veterans and their families, but is there a role that they can play in this issue?

[MGen David Millar]

Yes, sir, thank you.

Certainly, they do. In each of our wings and bases we have a military family resource centre that is for the families and the member. These centres are another place and another mechanism of voice that a family member can go to should they feel that their military member is experiencing difficulty. The spouse or even the children can go there and identify a concern.

Within the family resource centres we also offer courses and instruction on how to deal with issues like mental health, anguish, managing family problems, the family dynamic, what mental health looks like, what assault and harassment look like. We do that for family members, spouses, and even children as part of our wider education and awareness program.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you.

Am I...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

You have 10 seconds, so in all fairness, let's head over to Mr. Harris for five minutes, please.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We had a number of questions before that I was hoping you folks would help us answer.

Since we're talking about the Judge Advocate General and the police, this is an enforcement problem as well. If we have under-reporting, and if we have examples at least reported of either discouraging people from proceeding with a charge or trying to talk them out of it or, in some cases, making veiled threats about their career being at stake, how do you, sir, as the Judge Advocate General in charge of prosecutions, and you, sir, as the police, get past that?

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

Thanks, Mr. Chair and Mr. Harris, for the question.

Just to be clear, I'm not in charge of prosecution.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Well, you're in charge of the prosecution service—

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

No, I'm not.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

—and in charge of making sure it works.

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

I superintend it. I make sure they have all the resources to do their jobs.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

But you're also in charge of policy.

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

Yes. The director of military prosecution is independent from me, independent from the chain of command, and makes his own lawful discretionary choices when dealing with charges. From that perspective, it's quite clear that the prosecution has its own legal obligations and discretion to exercise. It has its own policies that are public. Anybody member of the public can read how the prosecution service goes about determining cases and how to proceed with cases. Those are not just sexual assault cases. Those are all military service offences, which are basically on two grounds— whether there is a reasonable prospect of conviction and whether it is in the public interest to do so.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I understand all that, sir. As to whether you have an answer to my question about how you deal with that, you don't.

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

I don't deal with prosecutions.