Evidence of meeting #28 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was important.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Martin  Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Kevin Lindsey  Chief Financial Officer, Department of National Defence

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Norlock

Order. Thank you for being here today.

Today we're dealing with the main estimates, and we have the minister and his officials here.

Before we begin, the chair would like to remind committee members that things may occur that might change some of our order of business, but it is the intention to continue with the order of business. The minister will be here for approximately an hour, and then the officials afterwards.

We have two things that we have to do. We have some time reserved for committee business at the end of the meeting. We've reserved about 10 minutes, and near the end of this meeting we will need about 10 minutes for the adoption of the estimates.

With that in mind, Minister, you have the usual seven minutes or so to make your statement.

Thank you very much for being here with your officials.

11 a.m.

Niagara Falls Ontario

Conservative

Rob Nicholson ConservativeMinister of National Defence

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee.

I'm pleased to be here today to discuss National Defence's main estimates for this fiscal year. The funding requested in these main estimates will allow National Defence to continue to invest in our personnel, equipment, and infrastructure.

This is of vital importance, because the world remains an unpredictable and hostile place. It's also important because our Canadian armed forces require unique capabilities in areas like disaster assistance, search and rescue, counter-insurgency, and surveillance so that they are prepared and equipped when they are called upon to help the Canadian people any time and anywhere.

Over the past year alone, our men and women in uniform have played a critical role, both at home and of course abroad. Last summer, you may remember, more than 2,200 Canadian armed forces personnel were deployed to southern Alberta to assist with flood relief, including by rescuing and evacuating dozens of Canadians in distress. Last November, more than 300 members of our military were deployed to the Philippines following Typhoon Haiyan, where they purified nearly 500,000 litres of water, treated over 6,500 medical patients, and delivered food, goods, and building materials on behalf of NGOs and local authorities. Just a few weeks ago, we initiated the deployment of an air task force of six CF-18 fighter jets, HMCS Regina, 15 operational planning staff, and around 50 soldiers to various locations in Europe, where they are now contributing to NATO's efforts to reassure allies as a solution to the Ukraine crisis is sought, one that will respect the democratic aspirations of the Ukrainian people and the territorial integrity of their country.

As you can see, the Government of Canada and our armed forces continuously follow developments at home and around the world, and we stand ready to assist whenever necessary and appropriate.

Mr. Chair, less than two weeks ago Canadians from coast to coast assembled here on Parliament Hill and at events in many communities for the National Day of Honour. I hope that my colleagues around this table took time to mark this important day of recognition, because I think it's extremely important for this nation.

As you know, this moving event gave Canadians the opportunity to remember and celebrate the outstanding achievements of our men and women in uniform over more than twelve years in Afghanistan. They fought al-Qaeda and the Taliban in the Arma Mountains. They fought insurgents and supported development through the provincial reconstruction team in Kandahar, and they stood up an air wing to keep our troops and allies safe. They established, supported, and commanded the first NATO multinational field hospital involved in combat operations, and in the last few years of our engagement in Afghanistan they helped train the Afghan national security forces in Kabul.

It was a complex and demanding mission right from the start, but I am proud to say that more than 40,000 Canadian troops were deployed to the region, many of them more than once, and they succeeded in helping to stabilize the country, while securing the well-being of the Afghan people and the values we all believe in.

They could not have done this successfully, however, without strategic investments by the government in critical equipment, infrastructure, training, and services, including care for our ill and injured personnel. I know this is a matter of concern to committee members, one which you have studied extensively over the past few years, and as you are aware, National Defence has not only increased overall health care spending to $420 million annually, offering a wide range of services, including medical and dental care, support for families, return-to-work programming, expedited access to Veterans Affairs benefits through the joint personnel support unit, but we have also increased the investment in mental health care specifically, announcing an additional $11.4 million in 2012 to bring the total to $50 million.

This is one of the greatest lessons that we learned from our Afghan experience: the vital importance of long-term, predictable, yet targeted defence funding to achieve both responsiveness and mission success.

With that in mind, I would like you to review of course the National Defence main estimates for 2014.

On page 199 in the English version and page 186 in the French version, you will see that our estimated budgetary expenditures for this year are $18.7 billion. This represents a net increase of approximately 4% from last year's main estimates.

The overall increase is due primarily to an increase of $1.1 billion in our capital vote, required to align funding for major equipment and infrastructure projects with current acquisitional timelines. This includes funding for key projects such as the Arctic offshore patrol ships, the maritime helicopter project, and the family of land combat vehicles, which are crucial to ensure our ability to monitor and respond to threats at sea, on land, and in the air.

At the same time, National Defence is supporting our ill and injured with much needed infrastructure improvements at Canadian Armed Forces health services centres across Canada.

We have successfully implemented National Defence efficiency-finding measures as announced in budgets 2012 and 2013. These include a reduction in travel expenses, the transfer of technical support functions to Shared Services, and the transfer of liability for further severance payments to the Treasury Board Secretariat.

Mr. Chairman, we are committed to being good stewards of public funds and to carefully managing and balancing our resources as we strive to help the government return to a balanced budget by 2015. To this end, over the past year, we have made many efforts to do defence better and smarter. In collaboration with Public Works and Government Services, for example, we have launched an innovative defence procurement strategy to streamline and leverage military procurement.

An important part of the new defence procurement strategy is the publication of the Defence Acquisition Guide, which I was happy to announce yesterday. This guide contains a large list of capabilities that the Canadian Armed Forces will continue to examine in the next five to 20 years, and it will allow for early engagement between industry and defence. Subsequent discussions with the government will help determine which of these capabilities are chosen for implementation. We have been working in close cooperation with Public Works and Industry Canada to produce approximately 200 capability profiles that provide a description of each project's objectives, an estimated cost range for the acquisition, and an estimated timeline of milestones.

The Department of National Defence is committed to engaging with Canadian industry early on in our procurement process. This Canadian expertise is extremely valuable in making the best decisions possible in terms of military acquisitions.

As stated in the 2013 Speech from the Throne, the government values its partnership with industry as it ensures that all major military purchases create high-quality jobs for Canadian workers.

Mr. Chair, as you know, we have also engaged in a rigorous process of defence renewal, overhauling key business processes to find efficiencies while improving effectiveness, such as by encouraging broader maintenance contracts on base, making better use of new technologies for training, and centralizing services like information technology and real property.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to take a moment to say a few words on the handling of sexual assaults in the Canadian Armed Forces. This is an issue that has been before the media and, I'm sure, on the mind of many of you, as it has been on mine. I want you to know that I take the allegations raised in the media very seriously and so does General Lawson, who spoke with you the day before yesterday. As I am sure he mentioned on Tuesday, he is actively examining, as a matter of priority, how these allegations can best be evaluated and addressed, and he has asked for an external review of this matter. I think this is an appropriate course of action and I look forward to the details of this review.

It's my view that the main estimates before the committee today will enable the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces to continue to fulfill their critical defence mandate, a mandate this government has called one of its highest obligations, while continuing to improve business processes so as to achieve ever-greater impact for each tax dollar spent.

Thank you very much.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Norlock

Thank you very much, Minister.

Before we begin our questioning, I'm advised that there is a possibility and indeed a probability of some votes. So we'll try to get through the questioning as well as we can.

Mr. Chisu, go ahead for seven minutes, please.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you very much to the officials from the Canadian Armed Forces for being here.

Before I start my questioning, I will tell you that I was extremely proud to serve in the Canadian Armed Forces. Being a member of Parliament who served in Afghanistan in 2007, I was extremely honoured by the National Day of Honour.

Regarding the main estimates, Minister, could you tell us the main reasons for National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces requiring an increase of more than $1.1 billion in capital expenditures over the previous fiscal year?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Thank you very much for that, and thank you for your service to this country, both in the public sphere today here as a member of Parliament and as a member of our armed forces. All of us are very grateful for that.

With respect to your question as to why this money is needed, we have to maintain our capability as an armed force in this country. We never know when we will be called upon to lend assistance either at home or abroad. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we were called upon and volunteered to help out in the Philippines. I mentioned the flooding that took place in Alberta where we were called upon to help. You see the changing situation in Ukraine and eastern Europe. Again, we have to have that capability. It's not enough for us to hitch a ride with our allies if we want to contribute.

I went to Trenton to see off our troops who were assisting in the Philippines, to see that we had that capability to lead there, to take equipment, to take individuals, to get there, to get on the ground to help. I was very proud of that, but as you know, capability is not just a one-time thing that you can prepare for and then get away from. It has to be continuous. Therefore, as you know and as your committee is well aware, the military is involved in a number of projects, sometimes in conjunction with Public Works and other government agencies, to get the right equipment for our men and women in uniform. We have to maintain that capability. I think it's important as part of these estimates that there be funding for that.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Minister, can you provide a breakdown on spending on major capital equipment and infrastructure projects?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I can, but we're probably a little tight for time, but we will give you a complete breakdown of the major items in that, colleague. Again, I think I could perhaps repeat them all for you here, but we'll leave that with the chair, so you'll get a complete breakdown of where that is, because I think it's important for you to know that. Again, I think the committee members will draw the conclusion that these are all important steps in maintaining the capability of the men and women in our armed forces.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

I was especially interested in the family of land combat vehicles. Being an engineer, I was very pleased to see some improvements in this area.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I think it's important for us to have that. As you see from the main estimates, there's $872 million for the family of land combat vehicles. It's a major part of the expenditure. Again, these provide the armed forces with many capabilities in many different circumstances to be able to fulfill the mandate and the tasks for which they are given. As you say, I appreciate your interest and your support in that because I too believe that's very important. Part of the capital expenditure, of course, is for the Arctic offshore patrol ships. Again, I know the members are aware of the LAV upgrade project. These are the major ones, but there's a host of them and I think they are all very important.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Thank you very much.

If you are still speaking on the main estimates, can you elaborate on the Arctic offshore vessels?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Thank you very much.

Again, as you know, progress is being made in Halifax. I don't know if your committee members have been down to the Irving shipyards yet. They may be of interest to you. Even over the last couple of months, you can see the difference in the infrastructure that is already in place. I think, again, this is an important component of our capital infrastructure. It gives us the ability in everything from search and rescue to monitoring and patrolling for sovereignty purposes. There is progress in that area, and I expect that to continue.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

So it is part of the national shipbuilding procurement strategy?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

It is. This is a wide-ranging project, as you know, and it's a continuous effort. In my last couple of trips to Halifax, I've been pleased to see that there is progress in this matter, and I expect there to be continued progress on this.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

In this area, how would the funding that is included in this project benefit Canadian industry? That is, I think, an important aspect of this.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

That's a perfect example. It's right on the ground in Halifax Harbour there, if you have a look at that. It's one of things we have made a point of wanting to see; we want the capability, and we want these projects completed and delivered to our armed forces. At the same time, we're very interested in the benefits to Canadian industry and to ensure that Canadian jobs are either being sustained or increased.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Norlock

Thank you very much, Minister.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, this is an important component to that, Mr. Chair.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Norlock

Thank you very much, Minister.

Mr. Harris, go ahead for seven minutes

May 29th, 2014 / 11:15 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for your appearance and that of your officials.

Like you and I think the vast majority of Canadians, we were pleased to see the actions and activities of the Canadian armed forces in southern Alberta during the flood, the participation internationally with Typhoon Haiyan in the Philippines and, of course, support of the NATO reassurance mission—our contribution to that. I believe we also had some heavy-lift assistance in the mission in Mali in the last year or so, as well. These are good reasons why Canadians need to have, and want to have, a military force capable of providing these types of both national and international assistance.

Sir, on the estimates as a whole, in previous years there used to be a breakdown of the main estimates in terms of army, navy, and air force. We don't see that today. I don't want to have an answer right now, but could we get your officials to provide the committee with a breakdown of the operational expenditures and the capital expenditure by category for army, navy, air force, reserves, and cadets?

It would be very helpful for us to understand what's going on in the allocation of resources inside the military. Is that something that you would be prepared to provide?

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Thank you for your comments with respect to the deployment of Canadian armed forces, and thank you for mentioning, among other things, Mali in the last couple of years, and Libya. You're quite correct that we're called upon in different areas of the world.

With respect to a breakdown of that into more detail, perhaps I'll ask Kevin Lindsey to make comments on that.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

I don't want it now.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Okay, that’s fair enough.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Because it would take a long time, I wouldn't be able to ask the second question. If you could undertake to provide it to us through the committee, that would be terrific.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

We'll give you everything you need on that. We'll be glad to do that.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Thank you very much.

Mr. Minister, you mentioned the issue of sexual assault in the military. One issue that came up the other day was the requirement under section 9.3 of the act, which, of course, indicates that the Judge Advocate General is responsible to you for his performance as JAG and his duties and functions.

When did you become aware that the annual report of the Judge Advocate General on the administration of military justice in the Canadian Forces hadn't been delivered since 2010? The report for the period ending March 31, 2011, was only filed in the House of Commons on the 19th of March of this year.

When did you become aware that this was a problem?