Evidence of meeting #32 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was allies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
I don't think I can really comment on how Russia may or may not see this activity. In an assurance piece, it is assuring our NATO allies. I suspect it may be affecting the calculus of Russia in this case, but that would simply be pure speculation on my part.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you. They sure have indicated that in the news. But when Mr. Putin talks about, “Well, you guys shouldn't really be doing that”, in my view, whatever he says in public he takes the opposite actions. But that's only a comment on my part.
One of the key missions of the Standing Maritime NATO Group is to establish a NATO presence. Of course, in light of what has occurred in the Ukraine, how important is it to show that NATO has a presence in Eastern Europe and the Baltic Sea? And do you feel that demonstrating a presence can deter further aggression?
4 p.m.
Director General, International Security Policy, Department of National Defence
Absolutely. The importance of having a NATO group is not only to show the ships, but show the capability of the ships to work together. That's creating an opportunity for us to display that skill through all the training that's ongoing, while we're deploying in their region. I think that is achieving the union we're looking for.
October 21st, 2014 / 4 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you very much.
I think the words “Operation Reassurance“ basically say everything about what the operation is intended to do, namely two things: to reassure our NATO allies, especially those smaller countries that don't have many of the capabilities that, perhaps, Canada does; and also to reassure our perceived adversary, or someone who's flexing their muscles unnecessarily, that we do have the capability of reining them in.
The other thing I believe we're doing—and perhaps you can make a comment—is strengthening some form of diplomatic ties with our NATO partners in the area. Are we doing anything in that regard, either naval-wise or air-wise?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, International Security Policy, Department of National Defence
Just from a naval perspective, while the ship was in the Black Sea program, for example, we did some port visits. Doing that creates two messages: one is the closeness we're displaying with the country we are visiting; the other is to show some Canadian resolve in the region. We are able to meet some of the senior folks while we're there. The ambassador uses that platform to send some message at the same time about the capability that Canadians are bringing to the region.
We're quite proud of the ships we have out there, absolutely.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you very much.
One other thing we're doing there, with regard to the army part of our armed forces is of course that we're training and learning lessons with our NATO allies. What important skills, lessons, and training techniques have our forces taken away from the training missions they have participated in, and particularly in Poland, to your knowledge?
4:05 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
Central to the success of NATO is the ability of the countries to work together—the interoperability that we speak about quite often. Any opportunity that you have to exercise together is particularly useful.
In a NATO context, while we exercise frequently with them, we haven't had many opportunities to operate with Poland, for example. At the very tactical level, the skills of the various countries would provide something for our soldiers to take away. As to the opportunity to exercise with them, we have done air drops together in formation. I think a lot of useful interoperability-building has been going on.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Thank you very much for being here to brief us. I appreciate it.
I have two different lines of questions that I'm interested in. One is about how many Canadian armed forces personnel are in that area on this NATO mission for Operation Reassurance and its various components.
4:05 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
Presently, we have 140 RCAF personnel in Lithuania, and that number includes the air crews and the ground crew and support personnel; there are approximately 240 people on board the ship; and the land element is a company-sized element of approximately 140 personnel. There are also a number of liaison officers, a handful at various operational headquarters in NATO. That, by and large, captures the present strength of the mission.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay. So of the 4,000 in combined, resolved three.... Those 4,000 would be Canada's contingent for this?
4:05 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
It is 140 of the 4,000 who are Canadian.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
Yes.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay.
Help me understand what kind of support those armed forces members have. We know that sometimes another deployment triggers operational injuries from previous deployments—from Afghanistan, for example—and so having medical professionals to support armed forces members can be helpful, should they need that support.
Are there any medical support personnel with the group?
4:05 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
We'd certainly rely, in a NATO context.... If you're talking about medical help for injuries in training, that backbone is there, as every exercise would have it.
I would just comment, though, that we're there exercising, doing things similar to what we'd be doing in Petawawa or elsewhere. The chief was relaying to me that when he visited the land element in the last month, some of the soldiers were saying that one of the greatest experiences they have had in their careers is the ability to exercise in a very peaceful sense with close allies.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay. So there are not necessarily uniformed psychologists in case they're—
4:05 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
I don't think we're anticipating operational stress injuries from this type of exercise. But certainly, when people come back from this deployment, they will be screened as if they had come back from an operational deployment.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay, thank you.
I want to find out about the whole cyber issue. We've been talking about ships and planes and land exercises. My understanding is that cyber-attacks were a big part of the Russians' approach for annexing Crimea and that disconnecting the Ukrainian forces in the region from the government forces was one of their approaches.
To what degree in Operation Reassurance are we following up on NATO's recognition that the alliance needs to address cyber-security issues and the ability of our partners to work together on them, with different members able to have their own cyber-security capability raised, but also their capability of working together?
4:10 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
You hit on an area and question that I'm going to have to take under advisement. With respect to cyber-threats, NATO recognizes, as you pointed out, that this is an area that we need focus on more. Certain NATO allies have quite advanced capabilities—there's a varying level. But in the context of Russian activity in Crimea and elsewhere, I'm not familiar enough with it to really give you a proper answer.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay, so another challenge at the time this was first unfolding was the lack of intelligence as to what was going on on the ground. I think it would probably be generally agreed that intelligence, whether it's human or signals or image intelligence, is a very important part of effective defence, deterrence, and reassurance.
So what kind of capability has Canada offered on that front? Then I have another more specific question about that.
4:10 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
If I may turn your question, because I think you were framing it as a challenge, I'd say that we actually had quite good intelligence on exactly what was going on in the region. More specifically, with certain allies and with the sharing of information, I was able to see on a day-by-day basis the evolving nature of Russian advances in Crimea, and also what was happening in Luhansk and Donetsk. So in that context I would just offer to you that we do have that view.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Can I just ask a question and get some clarification on the following? Did the Ukrainian forces have the intelligence they needed to be effective and were there ways in which NATO is addressing...? If the answer is no, are there ways in which NATO is addressing that gap for potential future conflicts?
4:10 p.m.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
If we're talking about sharing intelligence information outside of NATO members, I can't specifically comment on that. I know that various countries....
I am not familiar enough with Ukraine's integral intelligence capability to offer whether they were challenged in that area or not, but I would suggest that they are probably reaching out to NATO and looking for some mentoring, certainly, and some help along those lines, which is not unusual for many countries in that area.
