National Defence Committee on Nov. 4th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

We're just completing the second round now, and Mr. Larose is next.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

General Hood, I wonder if you could talk about the upgrades that have been done most recently, in 2010, to the CF-18 Hornets, as well as the recent upgrades to the Aurora, and how that new technology and capability is assisting in theatre right now.

[MGen Michael Hood]

I can, in very brief terms; I'm not going to speak to the actual capabilities of the aircraft.

Both of those cases, the CF-18 and the technology in that aircraft, and the CP-140 with largely Canadian technology, are at the top end of capabilities that are available in theatre. The latest update to the Block III Aurora has a very effective overland ISR capability that is certainly the envy of some allies, as well.

I'd say that they are top-end capabilities.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Thank you.

I'm just wondering if any of you would comment on what would be happening on the ground today if the coalition had not engaged with an air combat role in the last 30 days.

[MGen Michael Hood]

Again, I wouldn't want to hypothesize too far—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

I think it's fair—

[MGen Michael Hood]

—but without anything to blunt that advance—we've seen the air strikes being quite effective at that—I could imagine that they'd be much closer to reaching their objectives.

[RAdm Gilles Couturier]

To add to that, the Baghdad element is key to the future of Iraq.

One other thing that the Iraqi defence forces are doing is concentrating their main capabilities in that region in order to protect what they see as their vital ground. Without our going in there, one could only imagine where Baghdad would be today.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Okay, so the air strikes that we delivered over the weekend, on Sunday, were in defence of positions around Fallujah. The ISIL terrorists are trying to get into that area and push towards Baghdad, and it's because of air support that the Iraqi security forces have been able to push them back.

[RAdm Gilles Couturier]

The element here is that this is all part of the overall campaign plan to make sure that Baghdad is not being seized. The fact that they were using construction equipment to get rid of some of the damming that affected the water allocation within the region certainly affected the effectiveness of the troops on the ground.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Of course, the news is always reporting on what is happening in Kobani, in Syria, which is outside of our area of engagement, and on what's happening around Baghdad.

Is the Royal Canadian Air Force engaged as well in surveillance and sending up fighter jets in northern Iraq in support of the peshmerga forces in the north?

[MGen Michael Hood]

Our area of operations is Iraq writ large. If a target were to come up that was in Mosul, for example, which is in the region that you speak of, and it was assigned to us, it met our collateral damage estimate, and was approved, it would be struck.

There are no limits on the use of Canadian assets within Iraq.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Canada gleaned a lot of expertise and information from both Libya and Afghanistan.

How are those lessons learned being applied to what we're doing in this coalition battle in Iraq?

[MGen Michael Hood]

We spoke earlier, answering Mr. Chisu's question with respect to the professionalism of the Royal Canadian Air Force in this case.

The lessons we've learned in previous operations, at all levels—tactical, operational, and strategic—are always rolled into the subsequent training activity, and then into the operations that we do. I wouldn't be able to pull out a specific one, but I'm confident in saying that the lessons learned process that we spoke about previously is very active. So all of the lessons that we learned previously would be rolled in for today.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Okay.

Can you talk about how our contribution in this coalition and our fight against ISIL compare to the contribution that we made in the conflict in Libya, for example?

[MGen Michael Hood]

Well, I don't think any two coalitions are the same, although there are some of the same actors in both. Our contribution is not dissimilar, although you'll recall we had Royal Canadian Navy ships in the vicinity along with the Sea King helicopter. It is similar in size and scope. We've increased the size of our CP-140 contribution, and the Block III aircraft is now completely operational. We're bringing even more to bear in this campaign than we were able to do in Libya, for example.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, General.

Mr. Larose, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Jean-François Larose, Forces et Démocratie, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A lot is being said about conventional targets, but I would rather talk about unconventional targets. I think our fellow Canadians are concerned about the fact that they are now affected in their homes, through the Internet. In committee, we have often discussed establishing something of an army that would be tasked specifically with handling Internet issues.

What are currently our capacities in that area?

Earlier, you talked about collaboration with the Department of Public Safety, but the situation may be a bit more advanced. The map presents a very conventional situation, but we are facing unconventional enemies. They can reach our children directly at home and create local cells.

Does your strategic planning involve specific targets related to the Internet? Is anything being done to limit the access those enemies have to the Internet? Is any kind of equipment targeted? What concrete measures are you taking in this respect?

[MGen Michael Hood]

In the Canadian Armed Forces, we have our own defensive capacity regarding the Internet and cyberspace. We protect that area for the Department of National Defence. It is the responsibility of the Department of Public Safety to deal with the issues you mentioned. This question has to do with Canadians, so it is not my place to answer it. Our capacity at the Department of Defence is mostly defensive.

[RAdm Gilles Couturier]

There are two aspects—national and international. We are clearly involved on an international level.

[Jean-François Larose, Forces et Démocratie, Repentigny, QC]

Absolutely, but you are directly involved at the source. You are in contact with those individuals, whether you like it or not, given all the complexity of the situation.

Do the Americans and the coalition have a capacity? Is some sort of collaboration established in that area?

[MGen Michael Hood]

If we found out an ISIL headquarters was using the Internet in its operations, that could be a target the coalition would attack because it may be considered as training for the ISIL army. If the target is legitimate, the Royal Canadian Air Force can attack it.

Mark, do you want to talk about legitimate targets?

[Col Mark Gendron, Deputy Judge Advocate General, Operations, Department of National Defence]

Legitimate targets, by their nature, location and objective, represent a real contribution, in military terms. If the target was an ISIL headquarters, it could be attacked because we are involved in an armed conflict.

[Jean-François Larose, Forces et Démocratie, Repentigny, QC]

In any conflict, enemy's logistics are definitely a target. The Internet provides the enemy with candidates, support or media coverage. I think this should be a priority and not a possibility. Canada wants to maintain a defensive approach, and I understand that. However, now that we have unfortunately become a target—in other words, we have failed in other areas—this should be a priority target.

[RAdm Gilles Couturier]

Earlier, we spoke with Mr. Harris about General Allen, who is favourable to another combat element against ISIL. That element consists in addressing some of the challenges you mentioned in a context that is not strictly of a military nature, but affects the government as a whole. This concerns financing, the Internet and the way the message is disseminated, not only in the region, but also around the world. So it should not just be limited to the military aspect and CENTCOM, in which we are much more involved. General Allen, who works at the U.S. State Department, is studying this complex aspect.