National Defence Committee on Feb. 18th, 2015

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

To answer your question first, we will do that in support of the local first responders. If the first responders who are tasked in support of that utilize a transponder or other mechanisms to track, then that will be with that team. It's no different from a volunteer search and rescue within many communities. Our Rangers in many cases are volunteers for the local search and rescue organizations as well, but weren't always in support of a lead agency.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Do they have personal transponders?

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

To the best of my knowledge, unless it's being supported by that agency, we would not provide that as part of our equipment because they do this in support of the ground search agency that has been tasked to do it.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

Do I have more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

No, your time is close to out, but thank you, Ms. Gallant.

Ms. Michaud, you have five minutes.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank Brigadier-General Woiden for his testimony.

I would first like to talk about the reserve forces more generally.

For several months, if not years, we have been anticipating a review and a restructuring of the reserve forces. This seemed to us to be a priority that would at least guarantee the effectiveness of the reserves. The latest news is that the review of the reserves structure was to be completed in March 2014, and a new funding model was to be implemented for April 1, 2015.

However, we recently learned that this review had not yet been completed and that the April 1 deadline for the restructured funding model would not be met. It seems to me that this is having a major impact on the reserve forces.

Do you know when the review and restructuring process will be finished?

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

What I will respond to is what I'm aware of as a function of that particular view. I believe the activity you talk about is the comprehensive review that was launched in 2013 by the VCDS, the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff. That particular document and that activity was superseded, which is the original timelines and stuff were superseded by another document that clearly articulated it was to be a full-time reserve study or review that replaced the previous document and previous study. That is ongoing now.

The timelines have been extended from that original activity, and it is ongoing. It's going to be at least another 24 months as they go through a variety of different analyses. It has to do primarily with the allocation of funding for part-time and full-time reservists. So it's not necessarily a structural review, but is particularly a funding model review, and that superseded the previous comprehensive review, which was the one, I believe, you talked about.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you very much.

Are the timelines for this study creating any particular challenges for you and your activities?

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

Not necessarily, no. Certainly in my perspective and the army reserves' perspective, all that does is it allows us to carry on with the existing funding models and activities that we have now.

What it particularly was focusing on was a holistic review of the reserves as a function of the original PRECS, primary reserve employment capacity study, that was done a couple of years ago, and that has now been superseded by this change in focus, if you will, as to part-time and full-time reserve pay allocation infrastructure.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

A little earlier, my colleague, Mr. Harris, spoke about the delays in getting pensions to reservists. You yourself mentioned the delays in paying out severance pay. It seems that reservists may wait up to 21 months to receive their severance pay, when it takes 18 weeks for members of the regular forces. I find it unacceptable that the reservists have to wait so long to receive the amounts owed to them.

Do you have any suggestions for improving this situation? We need to try to eliminate these delays and ensure that our reservists have access to services of the same quality and efficiency as members of the regular forces.

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

We do recognize that there's an issue. We're aware that many reservists who are getting out now are waiting in significant timeframes for that, as was identified by the ombudsman I think a year ago. I know that a variety of different efforts have been put forward in trying to resolve that issue. I am not involved in that at all. This is more the pension and the severance package piece.

Again, I don't want to deflect this, but Admiral Bennett might be in a better position to explain what is being done to try to resolve that specific bubble, if you will. There is a bubble that has grown because of payment in lieu and other activities that have occurred. But I'm not really privy to any other initiatives being done at this time.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So you do not have your own recommendations to make about improving the process?

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

Oh, I probably have lots, but as to whether they would be appropriate or not....

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

The bottom line is just putting the resources in place to address the issue. I'm sure there's a variety of different challenges in making that happen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Mr. Bezan, for five minutes, please.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

I want to thank General Woiden for coming in to talk about the reserves.

I had the opportunity, as I was telling you earlier, General, on Sunday to spend some time with the 38th Brigade. Reserve units from Thunder Bay, throughout Manitoba, and all of Saskatchewan are participating in Exercise Arctic Bison 2015 on Lake Winnipeg, simulating a plane crash. They'll be spending nine days out on the ice. They won't be going into the bush to camp; they'll be sleeping out on the lake. They're working with a platoon from the 2nd Battalion of PPCLI, out of Shilo. The 440 Squadron from Yellowknife is down with a Twin Otter. They're coordinating with the RCMP and Transport Canada as they simulate a plane crash on the north basin. There are even U.S. Army reserves from Oklahoma participating in the mission so that they can get some exposure.

Can you talk about the importance of having these types of exercises? I don't mean just from the standpoint of training and maintaining capabilities within the Canadian Armed Forces reserve units. I should also mention that the 4th Ranger company is participating, which I believe is out of Thompson. We're talking about interoperability here. We're talking about ongoing training and coordination between all segments of a whole government approach, and also really looking at a NORAD model on northern sovereignty and protection.

I wonder if you could talk a bit about that, about how important this is.

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

I think you hit the nail on the head in trying to say this is a whole defence team approach. You talked about all the constituent parts. This has been an ongoing increasing level of activity, both from a training...and not just in the winter; it's in the summer as well, in austere, isolated regions across the country, in both the north and the northern portions of our provinces.

In terms of the interoperability piece, we've talked about having the Americans, and more importantly being able to operate within all the other government departments. We do have a great opportunity when we start to do more and more northern exercises. The planned level of training normally includes every ARCG, Arctic response company group. You'll also notice that elements of the immediate response unit from 2 PPCLI are involved. You can see that combined response capability, both the regular and the reserve component, being facilitated or enabled by our Canadian Rangers. So being able to operate, to travel, to be able to ensure, from an environmental and a social perspective within the region they're operating in, in very isolated conditions...allows that whole entity to go out and conduct operations in austere conditions.

The bottom line is that we are doing more and more northern exercises, normally one per division per annual training year. We then participate and rotate all the operational exercises, the sovereignty exercises in the north, which are Operation Nunalivut and Operation Nanook. That gets rotated by division. So we get the Arctic response company groups, and in some cases our territorial battalion groups will also participate in those exercises, primarily a reserve component.

So yes, we're doing more and more training every year. As we transition to a domestic focus on some of our reserve activities—LOO 1 and 2 I've talked about—I think you'll see a consistent presence. It allows us to take the basic winter warfare training we have and ensure that we do the next level of training and operations.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

The reserves are our citizen soldiers. They live among the civilian population, and during the week they all have their jobs.

Can you talk about the importance of having them as ambassadors within our communities and that liaison between communities and the Canadian Armed Forces, and how, because of their locations across the country, they are the front line in response to things like natural disasters?

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

Absolutely. I think our citizen soldiers, being that primary reservist—and that could be the naval reservist as well, or the air force, but predominantly our army reservists are that footprint in the community. They are located in 127 units across 117 communities across the country. When you start looking at the ability to reach out and in many cases being the only...being able to respond not only through a domestic response, but also being able to handle that day-to-day interaction with the community and provide that military presence, if you will....

They are the citizen soldiers. They are teachers. They are lawyers. There are doctors. They are engineers. They are plumbers. They are representative of the community. And I think more importantly, they are no different from our Canadian Rangers, who come from the community; the citizen soldier is that footprint, that connection.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, General. That's time.

Monsieur Brahmi, cinq minutes.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your testimony, Brigadier-General Woiden.

In your opening remarks, you said that one thing the Rangers are responsible for is collecting data of significance and conducting surveillance patrols as required. During a previous meeting of this committee, we were told about the advantages and capacities of drones, particularly small ones.

Are you considering using drones in areas that are difficult to access in order to improve the coverage that the Rangers provide?

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

The operations providing surveillance and sovereignty come under the over-watch, if you will, of the Canadian Joint Operations Command. I would defer to General Coates, who I think may, in fact, be talking about surveillance and ground search and rescue.

From the overall perspective of giving capabilities to the Rangers, I would go back to my initial statement about their capabilities. They are already trained when they come in. To go and have the enhanced additional training would have to be seen as an additional capability that we would have to provide them, and it would determine if they were, in fact, the right ones to carry on and/or conduct that type of operation, whether it's with drones or with other systems that would be made available to them.

The bottom line is that it would have to be looked at as a demand and a capability, and I would put to you that the Canadian Forces as a whole would determine where best to come up with that capability. I don't believe that's necessarily being looked at as a ranger responsibility.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

In the same paragraph of your opening remarks, you basically say that the Rangers also help with community evacuations and flood watches.

I represent a riding that was seriously affected by flooding in 2011, and the Canadian armed forces had to step in. I'm talking about Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu. There was some hesitation initially about the intervention. I don't think it had to do with the ability to intervene, but rather it had more to do with the uncertainty about the political decision, whether it came under provincial or federal jurisdiction.

You commented that the reserve forces has gone from a strategic force to an operational one. What is your vision in that respect? Might this change in the reserve forces's responsibility have consequences on the operational side and on how quickly it can intervene when the army is asked to help out with operations like community evacuations and flood watches?

I know your testimony focuses on the Rangers, but it can probably also apply more broadly to other units of the reserve forces that are called on to provide additional assistance in extreme situations like natural disasters.

[BGen Kelly Woiden]

Absolutely.

Sir, with regard to the overall role for any federal government presence within a community, and in this case a reserve or even a ranger presence, the commanding officer of a reserve unit, or in the case of the Rangers, has the ability to provide life-or-limb assistance if it's within their capacity to do so. They must immediately follow that up with a formal request for support and authority to carry that on.

They have a life-or-limb capability. That goes with any reservist. We've seen that in northern Alberta. We've seen that in the floods. We've seen it in Saskatchewan. We've seen that across the country—in Newfoundland not that long ago.

There is an immediate capability. If there is a ranger patrol, or even a reserve unit in an isolated region, that commanding officer can provide that in a life-and-limb situation, but then has to ask and get authority for continued support once it carries on.