Evidence of meeting #25 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Vivian Krause  As an Individual
Robert Reid  President, Mackenzie Valley Aboriginal Pipeline LP
Gaétan Caron  Chair and CEO, National Energy Board
Patrick Smyth  Business Unit Leader, Operations, National Energy Board

9:20 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

So you've only targeted environmentalists with your crusade. If we look at your background, we see that you've worked for a Conservative MP, you've worked in the salmon farming industry, and you've been paid on at least one occasion by the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. It doesn't take much of a conspiracy theorist to claim that the real hidden agenda is coming from you.

Have you conducted any research about the remaining secret backers of the Enbridge pipeline and what interests they are silently promoting?

9:20 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Well, sir, first of all let me say, just to give you the right numbers, I did work for a Conservative MP for four weeks, and I was fired.

9:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

9:20 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I worked for the United Nations in the poorest countries of the world for ten years.

9:20 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

I'm not surprised.

9:20 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I also worked for the salmon farming industry. That was ten years ago. For the last five years, I've been working on this unpaid. I'm not paid by anybody, okay?

Could you remind me again what your second point was?

9:20 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

We'll go on to another question.

9:20 a.m.

An hon. member

He forgot.

9:20 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Oh, we'll go on to another question.

You've been trained as a nutritionist--

9:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Oh, I remember your question now.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Never mind.

You've been trained as a nutritionist?

9:25 a.m.

As an Individual

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

We've had some pretty highly qualified people come to our committee, with expertise on subjects like industry, labour.... We've had government officials and leading academics testify on the decline in the refinery industry and the loss of jobs. So as a nutritionist, you're not an expert. Why are you...?

9:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Why am I doing this?

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Yes.

9:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I'll be glad to answer your question. The reason I'm doing this, sir, is that no one else did. Frankly, the work I've done I think is important. It shouldn't have been done by an unpaid lay blogger working on her dining room table using Google. It should have been done by the media--this is investigative journalism type of work--but that wasn't happening. I felt it was an important issue, and that if I didn't do it, it just wouldn't get done. So that's why I did it.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Do you not agree that it seems more concerning that a foreign-state-owned company like Sinopec has not only bought up large swaths of oil sands, but is now trying to push the pipeline through? You hardly even need a conspiracy theory to imagine that they aren't looking out for Canadian interests, because they also have a veto on new refineries in Canada. Don't you find that kind of odd?

9:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

If you are saying that foreign investment in a Canadian industry should be out in the open, I agree with you. When foreign funding to the critics of industry is coming from a hedge-fund billionaire and billion-dollar foundations whose expressed interest is the energy security and energy independence of their own country, I think that should be out in the open. I think all funding should be out in the open.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

If you think this should be out in the open, why aren't you researching these companies that are backing Enbridge?

9:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Many other journalists have already done it. It's already out there. No one was looking into the foreign funding of the environmental movement, and that's why I did.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

There is a chart of the Prime Minister with Ethical Oil, the two ministers and a bunch of staffers. I think maybe your picture would fit in quite well, because that's what you're defending: Ethical Oil. I just can't believe what you've been saying.

9:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I think it's obvious that they have used my research in their campaign, but they have done so without my permission. Frankly, in some cases they have inaccurately quoted my research, and I've insisted on having the record corrected. I'm not part of that campaign.

The point I'm trying to make is that we have money coming here from foreign billionaires. In the public debate--

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

We also have money coming in from billionaires supporting the pipeline.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Your time is up, Mr. Gravelle.

Ms. Krause.

9:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I was just going to say that in the public debate the emphasis has been put on the fact that the money is foreign. I've been trying to put the emphasis on the fact that it's big. If you look at my blog, you'll notice that I've also drawn attention to the money from big sources in Canada. For example, the Bronfmans have contributed $6 million to the David Suzuki Foundation: $2 out of every $25 of funding to the David Suzuki Foundation has come from the Bronfmans, the Claudine and Stephen Bronfman Family Foundation.

I haven't looked only at American money; I've looked at big money on both sides of the border.