Natural Resources Committee on May 10th, 2012

[Gil McGowan]

That's over a period of time. Because these are potential jobs, it's hard to pin down a number, but we're basically shutting off a future for Alberta's energy industry that includes upgrading and refining. We will probably keep the existing downstream production, refining, and upgrading that we have, but there's going to be very little more of it in the future if we continue with this approach to development.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

We've seen the same thing in British Columbia, with the shift to raw log exports as opposed to value-added production.

I'm going to direct a question now to our other witnesses. Thank you, Mr. McGowan.

[Gil McGowan]

Thank you.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

An agreement was announced yesterday between Taseko Mines and the Tsay Keh Dene first nation. Mr. Nicholls asked you a question earlier about agreements between aboriginal communities and companies. Is your department at all involved in those types of agreements? Please answer with a yes or no because I will then yield the floor to Ms. Liu.

[Michel Chenier]

Generally speaking, the department is not involved. We have various levels of agreement. The one you are talking about is between the communities and companies. The department has other types of agreements. I have learned through experience that it is best for those agreements to be negotiated between communities and companies.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much.

I yield the floor to Ms. Liu.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you. According to information provided by the CPSA, 480 jobs will be cut at the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development following the tabling of the latest budget. I would be curious to know what kind of impact this budget will have on your branch in particular.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Chenier.

[Michel Chenier]

Thank you for your question.

As all other departments, we had to implement the government's decisions regarding public service. Specifically regarding the management of our program, we had to implement an efficiency program to be able to reach the government's objectives. Yes, a few positions in our group have been affected.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I would like to know which specific positions you are talking about.

[Michel Chenier]

We are currently identifying those positions. As you may know, it's a matter of timing. I would not like to rush any final decisions, but I can assure you that—

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

If my understanding is correct—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Excuse me, Ms. Liu. Your time is up.

Mr. McGuinty, up to five minutes, please.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I'd like to go back to our witnesses from the department for a second. I just wanted to get on the record that it's impressive to see the BREA approach to designing an appropriate pathway. It's unfortunate the government killed the National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy in its budget bill, which was set up precisely to do the same thing at the national level. I think Canadians should know that. In fact, I think BREA was in part inspired by the work of the national round table over 25 years.

I want to come back to the work, particularly the policy work, as director, Mr. Chenier, you are responsible for. It hearkens back to questions I've been asking of many witnesses and many studies here. It goes back to the comments made by the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development.

I'm trying to find out how what you do factors in the government's plan to reduce greenhouse gases absolutely by 17% in the next seven and a half years. I'm just trying to get a sense of how that's factored into your decision-making. For example, let me ask you a couple of specific questions. In the issuance of new petroleum licences, how does the government's stated reduction target factor into the process?

[Mimi Fortier]

Environment Canada is largely leading the Government of Canada's policy for GHG emissions and climate change, so we take a broader policy direction from the Government of Canada.

To date, it really has not yet affected that pace of development and rights issuance yet, but those policies continue to be formulated. We continue to engage our federal colleagues as we move forward every year in our consultations on rights issuance.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So there will be a major rights issuance this June, for example, and in the applications, tenders, and competitive bidding process that goes on, the question of greenhouse gas effects is pretty much ignored.

[Mimi Fortier]

I can't say that Environment Canada has ignored it. We approach Environment Canada every year and mostly what we get from them is input on sensitive areas, conservation areas, areas that might be withdrawn in the future. We try to create that certainty for industry that we don't put out those areas that may be conserved. That's largely the input we get to date.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

What about at the working level then for BREA? How does BREA factor into its planning, its contributions toward a 17% reduction in greenhouse gases in the next seven and a half years?

[Michel Chenier]

Prior to addressing your specific question on BREA, I'd like to mention in a somewhat counter-intuitive way that oftentimes, when there are developments and there are finds in the north, it actually benefits the communities. In a specific case, there was a natural gas find outside of the town of Inuvik, which enabled the town to have a cleaner supply and source of energy.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Absolutely right.

[Michel Chenier]

So in that particular example, it's actually a benefit.

So sometimes counter-intuitively, our program—and it's not something that we control, obviously—can lead to some local sources of energy that are much more economic and better for the environment.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

And with fewer greenhouse gas emissions.

[Michel Chenier]

That's right.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So how is that factored into the decision-making going on at BREA?

[Michel Chenier]

For BREA specifically, climate change was identified, as I mentioned earlier, as one of these broader kinds of regional issues, and we do have a climate change working group under BREA. They are starting to work to identify specific projects that will not only assist in the planning and the decision-making in the future, but will also help us to better understand specifically.... I think all members of the committee appreciate that it's a very broad and complex issue, and to relate it back to a specific activity is fairly tenuous on certain occasions. So we have a group that is led by Environment Canada that has been funded to actually explore and address this matter.