Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 17th, 2011

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

If I could, I'd like to go back to where I left off. I asked you earlier about a national energy strategy of some kind and whether you had any kind of plan in front of you in terms of the government achieving a 17% reduction in greenhouse gases from 2005 levels by 2020.

Mr. Bloom, you said maybe 20 minutes ago that one of your roles is to be a federal timelines watchdog and that you were closely watching the work of Ms. King and others to make sure they complied.

You said, in response to a question—I'm not sure who asked it on the government side—that you played a highly facilitative role, that you helped “walk” project proponents through federal government infrastructure with the hopes of bringing their projects to fruition.

So I'm going to ask you this again. As a federal timelines watchdog, how are you walking your proponents through a 17% reduction in greenhouse gases from 2005 levels by 2020?

[Mitch Bloom]

As I said, our role is with respect to the regulatory process, and that is not part of the regulatory process. So it's not something that we keep timelines on or keep an eye on.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Ms. King.

[Janet King]

The processes we are involved in are the regulatory frameworks. They're designed to achieve the objectives that have been laid out in their legislation. To my knowledge, they are not directly referenced to such a plan.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So for Canadians to understand, what you're saying is that the regulatory processes that both of you navigate in one form or another don't embrace a 17% reduction of greenhouse gases from 2005 levels by 2020.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think Mr. McGuinty is trying to go fishing where there are no fishes. He's completely off the topic of what the witnesses are here for. He's heard from them several times that this isn't part of their mandate, and yet he continues to go there. It would be good if he pursued a line of questioning on the resource development in northern Canada. That's what these folks are here to testify to today and I think we should keep our questioning to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

The questions do seem to apply more to the environment department.

But Mr. McGuinty, go ahead.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I could reply to the point of order, that's precisely the problem. The notion of having a northern Canadian study without examining the environmental implications of massive resource exploitation is simply unconscionable in the 21st century.

I'd like to go back to my question, if I could, and switch gears, then, Mr. Chair.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

A point of order, Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Quickly, to address that, if Mr. McGuinty were actually serious about that, he would have put in witnesses for our witness list. I understand he has not done that, so I'm wondering why he's criticizing the witnesses we do have. If he's not choosing to engage more fully in this—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Okay, Mr. Anderson, it's not a point of order.

Go ahead with your questions, Mr. McGuinty.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the record, Mr. Chair, I didn't submit witnesses because I actually liked the list of witnesses that had been proposed and I didn't see any need to add any additional voices.

If I could go back to my questions, then, in line with Mr. Anderson's grave concerns about not talking about environmental issues, as we exploit northern resources, the Government of Canada is bound by a national sustainable development strategy.

Mr. Bloom, are you aware of that strategy? Have you read it?

[Mitch Bloom]

Yes, actually.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

How do you interpret the sustainable development strategy as you walk project proponents through the myriad of regulators and other federal players as they move their projects forward?

[Mitch Bloom]

The regulatory process is one that's legislated. It's based, as I said, on acts of Parliament that have been approved. There are not elements to which you're referring with respect to climate change or greenhouse gas within that regulatory framework. Our job is to keep people following through the legal process. If it had those elements, be assured we would ensure there was compliance with those legal elements as well.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Are you sure the sustainable development strategy adopted by the Conservative government has no bearing on legal elements in terms of climate change?

[Mitch Bloom]

My response was that the regulatory process itself does not contain provisions related to that particular aspect.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Hearing both parties present today reminds me of an instance about 10 years ago. In another life, an organization I worked with convened 20 deputy ministers in a room. We co-hosted a meeting with the then-Clerk of the Privy Council, Mel Cappe, and it was a full day on energy, the north, sustainable development, and environmental concerns.

At the end of the meeting, a very insightful business executive was asked for his response. He said these were very enlightening, very important, very informative sustainable development strategies across the board—eight cross-cutting elements—but he had one question: who's in charge here?

Mr. Bloom, Ms. King, as you look to navigate your regulatory responsibilities and project promotion responsibilities, and to overcoming red tape responsibilities, as you've described them, at the end of the day I've concluded from your testimony that there is no overarching energy/environment interface that you're operating under except what is reduced to regulation.

Who is ultimately in charge of guiding the overall exploitation of Canada's non-renewable resources in the north? Who is in charge?

[Mitch Bloom]

Would you like me to try to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Bloom, go ahead with a short answer. Mr. McGuinty's time is up.

[Mitch Bloom]

Again, we can only speak to the matters within our mandate. That particular aspect is not within our mandate. It's just not something that our organization is personally responsible for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. McGuinty.

And thank you for your answers.

We go now to Mr. Lizon for up to five minutes.

Go ahead, please.