Evidence of meeting #16 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was study.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jay Khosla  Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Martin Aubé  Director General, Strategic Science-Technology Branch, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Terence Hubbard  Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Jeff Labonté  Director General, Energy Safety and Security Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Carol Buckley  Director General, Office of Energy Efficiency, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

February 27th, 2014 / 8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Good morning, everyone.

We are here, as you all know, to begin a study on the cross-Canada benefits of developing the oil and gas sector of our energy economy.

Before I introduce the witnesses, there are just a couple of very quick things I'd like to mention. I think we should probably end the meeting at about a quarter after ten. We have the Aga Khan coming to Parliament. That'll give us ample time to get over there.

Secondly, I guess it's been agreed that our committee could be one of the committees that goes to the paperless committee system, so the clerk will send all members of the committee a video. If you could look at the video, then at some future meeting, over the next couple of meetings or so, we could have a very short discussion on that if you'd like and make a decision.

Turning to our business today, we agreed on December 9, 2013, that this committee would undertake a study on the benefits experienced across Canada from developing the energy industry, with a focus on the oil and natural gas sectors. Specifically, the study would examine how investment in this energy benefits local communities, businesses, and other sectors across the country, both directly and indirectly. It would allow the committee to better understand a wide range of benefits of the oil and gas sector to the Canadian economy in terms of employment, government revenue, innovation, the contribution to the GDP, and other benefits unlisted.

That's what the study is about. We have officials from the department here to give us the first testimony on the study. After the departmental officials give their presentations to us, we'll go to questions and comments, as usual. I have to say that I'm very much looking forward to this study.

I'll introduce the witnesses here today. We have Jay Khosla, assistant deputy minister, Energy Sector. Welcome to you.

We have Jeff Labonté, director general, Energy Safety and Security Branch, Energy Sector. Welcome to you again.

We have Terence Hubbard, director general, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector. Welcome.

We have Carol Buckley, director general, Office of Energy Efficiency, Energy Sector. Welcome.

We have Jonathan Will, director general, Electricity Resources Branch, Energy Sector. Welcome to you.

We have Martin Aubé, director general, Strategic Science-Technology Branch, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector.

I know you all. This is your very favourite thing you do in your jobs: come to our committee to give us information. But it really is something very important. It is an important role. The information you give does help inform parliamentarians, and parliamentarians are involved in the decision-making process. I do thank you very much for being here.

If you could go ahead with your presentations, please do, and when that's complete, we will go to the questions and comments.

8:50 a.m.

Jay Khosla Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Thank you, Chair. It's Jay Khosla here. Just building on that last comment, we do sincerely appreciate the opportunity to be here, and we completely understand the importance of this study. We also look forward to receiving the final report, so we can improve our practices within the Energy Sector of Natural Resources Canada.

Having said that, we've distributed a deck, so I'll be following the deck. You may want to follow along with the presentation as well.

I too am happy to be here today to talk about the economic benefits of the energy industry for Canada and the work accomplished by the energy sector at NRCan.

We are grateful to the committee for studying this issue, which we think is very important for Canada's long-term prosperity.

Since the committee is undertaking a study, my team is with me. We are here to answer any questions you may have.

As I said, we sincerely appreciate the opportunity to appear here and look forward to the results of the study.

To start off, the natural resources sector contributes significantly to Canada's economy and future. The sector accounts for 18% of Canada's GDP and about 1.8 million jobs in Canada. Resource development projects are also sources of capital and attract tremendous amounts of investment to the Canadian economy.

Finally, it's really important to note that our forecasts indicate there's currently approximately $650 billion in major resource projects planned or under way over the coming decade, and of that total, energy accounts for nearly 75%. This clearly has major implications for our country.

The next slide is a bit of a “shovels in the ground” kind of concept, but as the slide depicts, Canada's vast energy resources benefit every region of the country. In some ways this represents how active energy development is across our country. Moreover, it shows the diversity of Canada's energy resources, including hydro and other renewables. Also, while oil and natural gas development is concentrated in western Canada, you can see that there is significant oil and gas production in the Atlantic offshore and elsewhere.

The smaller inset map shows that unconventional gas resources can be found across the country.

In a nutshell, energy development no matter the form, shape, or size touches all parts of the country from coast to coast to coast.

In terms of further setting the context in a global sense, Canada's energy resources are amongst the world's largest.

As we can see, Canada is the fifth largest crude oil and natural gas producer in the world, as well as a major hydroelectricity and uranium producer.

Canada is also a global energy efficiency leader. For instance, the International Energy Agency ranked Canada second for energy efficiency improvements between 1990 and 2010.

Canada truly is a global energy leader.

Very quickly, I want to point out that this next slide depicts the vastness of Canada's oil reserves. What's more, with innovations in technology and improved production methods, estimates are now indicating that up to 315 billion barrels may ultimately be recoverable in Canada. Canada's energy endowment is truly the envy of the world.

I'm going to spend a little bit of time on this next slide. There are some considerable statistics here. It is clear that this endowment has direct impacts on the economy.

As the slide says, the energy sector provides $155 billion in GDP. That's over 9% of the Canadian total. It provides 300,000 jobs, equivalent to almost 2% of total employment; almost one quarter of all capital investments or $96 billion; $153 billion in foreign direct investments, which is again roughly a quarter of the total; and about 28% of total exports or $119 billion.

The final point is that all governments, federal, provincial and territorial, benefit greatly from energy development in terms of overall revenues.

Beyond this, the energy sector is an important contributor to many of Canada's other sectors, which helps ensure benefits for Canadians across the country. Also, governments and industry in Canada are investing significantly in energy R and D, which is strengthening the economic and environmental performance of the energy sector.

I'd be remiss were I not to mention the demand side of the equation of course, and that Canadians achieve significant savings through more efficient use of our energy resources. Based on efficiency gains alone since 1990, Canadians have saved $32 billion in energy costs in 2010.

At the same time we know the energy landscape is shifting. The past decade has seen extraordinary growth in energy demand, largely driven by the fast-growing Asia-Pacific markets. Combine this trend with the fact that the U.S. is nearing energy self-sufficiency thanks to its unconventional oil and gas revolution—and don't forget that the U.S. is essentially Canada's only export market for energy—and taken together this means that Canada has both an opportunity and an imperative to diversify energy markets in order to continue reaping the key economic benefits that we enjoy today.

Chair, I won't spend a whole lot of time on this slide. I think this trend has been recognized at this committee in previous studies, but suffice it to say that Canada is well positioned to help meet this growing global demand for energy.

According to the National Energy Board, Canada's production of unconventional resources, including oil sands, shale gas and gas reservoirs, is projected to grow significantly until 2035 and beyond.

In other words, our stocks are not decreasing. The outlook for the Canadian energy sector is focused on continued growth.

In fact, Canada's sector is reacting to these dynamic changes. The new proposed pipeline projects could increase our export capacity to 3 million barrels a day.

Industry is also pursuing a variety of proposals to export Canadian natural gas resources to international markets via liquefied natural gas. As you know, 10 LNG export terminals are proposed on the B.C. coast alone, and one on the east coast. Canada's LNG value proposition is based on an abundant resource, clear regulatory structures, close proximity to markets, and an openness to foreign investment. The global community is showing active interest in our resources.

Summing it all up, what does it all mean? Canada has a huge economic opportunity, but needs to act quickly. Many argue that this is a time-limited window. As this slide indicates, economic experts agree on the tremendous importance and potential of Canada's energy sector.

A prominent stat comes from the IMF study, which indicates the potential to increase our GDP by 2% by 2020 if we're truly able to diversify our markets. Furthermore, the work by these experts highlights—you can see it on the slide—the importance of energy development for all regions of the country.

With that in mind, the Government of Canada is and has taken action to ensure success. In fact, much has already been done to support a vibrant and responsible energy sector. The government has modernized its regulatory system, is putting in place world-class safety and security regimes, and has invested in innovation and efficiency. The government is engaging domestically and internationally, and building partnerships with stakeholders to maximize Canadian benefits from resource development. In sum, the objective is to put all the building blocks in place to support the effective and efficient development of projects.

To sum up, the exploration and the diversity of Canada's energy resources provide significant economic benefits across the country. The government is actively implementing a program that supports the responsible development, transportation and use of our energy resources. In fact, energy fuels Canada's economic prosperity.

Thank you. We are now ready to take your questions.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you very much for your presentation, Mr. Khosla.

We'll go directly now to questions and comments. Starting in the first seven-minute round, we have Ms. Crockatt, followed by Mr. Julian and Mr. Regan.

Go ahead please, Ms. Crockatt, up to seven minutes.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you as well to our officials for being here today. It's great to see flanks of knowledge there to be able to ask these questions of.

I'm interested in drilling down a little bit. Thank you for the overview, Assistant Deputy Minister, and I'm wondering if you could help me by breaking down a little bit.... These numbers are very large for many people, and it's difficult for them to get their head around $2.8 billion, an increase in 2% of our GDP.

I wonder if you could take a stab at it, and we don't have an unlimited amount of time, but how does this break down province by province? If you could give us some detail of that, that would be very helpful.

9 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jay Khosla

Sure, I'd be happy to.

There are several different ways to take a run at the question. One of the most significant is to think about energy employment statistics, and I'll give you a smattering of the kinds of stats that we have.

In Newfoundland, energy jobs account for 4,500; in Québec, 23,000; Manitoba, 7,300; Saskatchewan, close to 20,000; Alberta, of course, 150,000; B.C., 25,000 and growing.

Overall, direct energy jobs account for 300,000 across the country. In terms of indirect employment, which may be something of consideration as well, there are 150,000 jobs across the country. So considerable numbers are there, obviously impacting every region. I didn't go through every province, but it gives you a sense of it.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Okay, and if I asked you to highlight a couple of examples, could you break that out for us? One of the myths may be that there are only a couple of provinces in Canada that are benefiting from our energy sector. Can you explain?

You've broken this out—I'm surprised at 23,000 jobs in Quebec. Maybe you could highlight a couple of examples for us there, and help to broaden that.

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jay Khosla

Yes, I'd be happy to.

The first thing to remember is this. Sometimes we just focus on Alberta and oil and gas, but as the map showed in my presentation, if you look at that as shovels in the ground, every province has pretty much an energy play, whether it be oil and gas, hydroelectricity, and so on.

Some of those jobs that we were talking about in Quebec do emanate from other sources of energy. I would say also that in 2012 Quebec exported $270 million of products to the oil sands—I hope I have that figure right. When you think about that from a perspective of give and take, some of the jobs that I would have spoken about are direct internal jobs to their main energy play, but also they're working with the oil sands.

I'll ask Jeff or Terry if they have anything else they want to add on this one?

9:05 a.m.

Martin Aubé Director General, Strategic Science-Technology Branch, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources

I would just add that some of the jobs are also manufacturing jobs, providing services or technologies and equipment for the oil and gas, and a lot of that is located in Ontario. That's where you also get the crosscutting nature of the impact from the industry.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Are you able to give us an example of that, Martin or Jeff? What won't Canadians know about the jobs that are created in Quebec or Ontario that are either directly or indirectly related to the oil and gas sector?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jay Khosla

Maybe they won't know about the array of spinoff jobs that come from the industry. A lot of people think about these jobs as direct jobs within the industry, construction or operations jobs, but when you look across the country, we are talking about an energy resource boom, which has secondary and tertiary effects—engineering jobs, manufacturing jobs, financial and technical jobs, scientific jobs, and on you go. Those jobs impact every part of the country. It's pretty clear when we look at B.C., for example, and you run the table in B.C. on the LNG play, that hotbed of activity in itself is creating a focal point for expertise being brought into a certain area of the country along all the types of jobs and sectors that we just spoke about.

I'll come back to the figure of the 150,000 indirect jobs across the country that are impacted. We're seeing hotbeds of activity in various pockets.

Terry.

9:05 a.m.

Terence Hubbard Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

As Jay indicated in his presentation, another element of this to highlight is not only the employment impacts, but the energy sector also contributes a significant amount of revenue to various levels of government, which pay for a whole series of important social programs that benefit Canadians right across the country. So there are the direct economic benefits that we see from projects that are taking place right across the country: significant hydro developments in Quebec, in Newfoundland we have oil and gas development, uranium development in Saskatchewan, the LNG plays in B.C. There's enormous development right across the country, and these benefits are shared through professional services, financial services, manufacturing.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

What percentage of government revenue comes from the oil and gas sector?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jay Khosla

Twenty-six billion dollars. I don't know what the overall percentage is. I don't know if anyone here at the table—but of the $26 billion, $22 billion is from oil and gas. So you can see fairly considerable overall revenue comes from the oil and gas sector.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Jeff, what about offshore benefits of the industry? Could you take a little snapshot of that and tell us what you've seen as some of the benefits there?

9:10 a.m.

Jeff Labonté Director General, Energy Safety and Security Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Sure. In the offshore area, which is predominantly Newfoundland and Labrador but Nova Scotia as well, which started earlier than Newfoundland and Labrador, we see 3,000 direct jobs in the energy sector. But overall employment in Newfoundland and Labrador in the energy sector is 12,800 jobs, which is nearly 6% of total employment in Newfoundland and Labrador.

We also see this sort of growth as the wealth that's generated from the energy activities spins itself into other things. As Jay did, we've mentioned manufacturing, but it also leads into areas like research and development. In the Newfoundland and Labrador area, we've seen several hundred million dollars' worth of research and development over the last two decades.

Anecdotally, I was in St. John's and it was mentioned to me that, for example, the engineering faculty of Memorial University is in the process of doubling its size, from roughly 30 to 50 or 60 different faculty members, which then leads into advanced engineering, chemical engineering, and the range of engineering services that then grow a much more skilled workforce and a much more vibrant economy in the province, which then benefits the country overall.

So we see these things as the stability and the wealth generation that comes from the oil and gas development, which typically happens over 20-, 30-, 40-year cycles. The projects go on for extended periods of time and bring opportunity to parts of the country as well as the country overall. They stabilize its ability to deliver social programs and to grow our workforce, education, and then our health spending.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you. I'm going to have to cut you off there. You're a minute and a half or so over time. Thank you, Ms. Crockatt.

There's a change in plans. We have Ms. Duncan, from the New Democratic Party, for up to eight minutes.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thanks very much. I'm sure I'll have the same problem as that of Ms. Crockatt—lots of questions to ask.

One of the important sectors in the resource sector is energy efficiency. I think I might have seen a number of you before when I was on the OGGO committee; we had a very extensive review of energy efficiency and what actions the federal government is taking to support and encourage that sector. Of course, that's one of the main costs that homeowners and business owners face, including our oil and gas sector: the cost of energy. Oil sands uses a huge volume of gas.

I've held consultations with people in the energy efficiency sector. They're telling me that the biggest barrier to the expansion of their sector, which they would like to expand—and potentially it could employ a lot of Canadians—is the failure of this government to impose an appropriate price on carbon, in particular in the oil and gas sector.

Can you update us on what's happening with imposing the price on carbon in the oil and gas sector?

9:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jay Khosla

I'll go to the first part of the question, and then deal with the last part in a minute.

I'm going to ask Carol, my DG of energy efficiency, to also take a stab at some of the question.

We're significantly proud of our Office of Energy Efficiency at Natural Resources Canada. It's a big player on the energy file.

As I had mentioned off the top, energy efficiency is important to this government. We've invested. I had a mentioned a stat of about $32 billion in terms of savings, and that's considerable. Embedded within that, of course, would be the fact that there are some GHG reductions from the savings, and we can talk about that.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

If I could interject, my question is not about what the federal government is doing to reduce energy use in the federal government, which of course would be admirable. My question is about what the department is doing about the reduction of energy use in the oil and gas sector.

9:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jay Khosla

We are working across the country on energy efficiency programs. We'll get into the oil and gas sector in a minute.

The stat that I gave was not about the federal government. It was actually the energy efficiency savings across the country from measures we have worked on and have implemented coast to coast. We're also continuing to pursue better environmental outcomes. We are a world leader and are recognized for our energy efficiency programs.

In terms of the impact on oil sands in Alberta, as such, we do work collaboratively with Alberta through a concept known as the Energy and Mines Ministers’ Conference, which meets annually, to implement direct programming within Alberta.

In terms of the overall savings to the oil and gas sector, there's a pretty interesting study that just came out from Jack Mintz in Calgary, which said there's more work to be done, for sure. We see that as a ripe area to assist industry there to reduce its costs, and so on. We are working directly with it, and we're going to continue to expand in that area.

Carol, maybe a few more anecdotes, or stats rather, in terms of Alberta—

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I would like an answer to my question about when we're going to see the regulations.

9:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jay Khosla

Sorry, I didn't realize you had a direct question on the regulations. I apologize for that.

I assume you're talking about the work on greenhouse gas regulations.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Absolutely.

9:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jay Khosla

That's under the domain of Environment Canada. It's the lead in the government on that particular file. I know it's working away at it, and has been. I'd expect it to be in a better position to answer. I certainly would not want to steal its thunder in that regard. In fact, it is the best positioned.

Go ahead, Carol.

9:15 a.m.

Carol Buckley Director General, Office of Energy Efficiency, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Speaking to some of the specific activities that take place with the oil and gas sector, I appreciate the interest in the work of the Office of Energy Efficiency. We deliver a number of tools. We're working with Alberta and companies in the oil and gas sector to deliver these tools in all of industry.

But we have a sector task force that addresses oil and gas specifically. Two of the tools we bring to the oil and gas sector to improve energy efficiency are the energy management standard from the international standards organization—this is an energy management standard that gets adopted voluntarily by industry.