Evidence of meeting #18 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was construction.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Christopher Smillie  Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO
Peter Boag  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Fuels Association
Roland LeFort  President, Local 707A, Unifor
Trevor Harrison  Professor and Director, Parkland Institute, University of Lethbridge, As an Individual

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Good morning, everyone.

We're here today to continue our study on the cross-country benefits of developing the oil and gas portion of the energy sector.

We have as our witnesses today, first of all, from the building and construction trades department of the AFL-CIO, Christopher Smillie. Welcome again.

From the Canadian Fuels Association we have Peter Boag, president and chief executive officer. Welcome to you again, sir.

We have by video conference two witnesses. From Fort McMurray, Alberta, from Unifor, we have Roland LeFort, president, Local 707A. Welcome to you, sir.

From the Parkland Institute we have Trevor Harrison, professor and director at the University of Lethbridge. Welcome to you, sir.

8:50 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. I appreciate having our witnesses here today. We only got notice that witnesses were appearing this morning yesterday at 4:15, so I'd really like to ask you, Mr. Chair, if we can have at least 24 hours' notice of which witnesses are appearing so that we can better prepare for the witnesses who are coming forward and giving their time.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

That is absolutely fair, Mr. Julian. I am working on that, and we will certainly do that for the members of the committee to be prepared. I've had the same comments from members on my side. To be prepared, it does take some time, to know which witnesses—point taken, and that will change. Thank you.

Okay, we'll have the presentations in the order that the witnesses are listed on the agenda today. We'll start with Chris Smillie, senior advisor, government relations and public affairs from the building and construction trades department. Welcome to you again, Mr. Smillie.

8:50 a.m.

Christopher Smillie Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO

Thank you very much, Mr. Benoit.

Good morning members of the committee, Chair, and fellow witnesses.

I see Mr. Boag has his green socks on today, so anything I do probably can't beat that.

8:50 a.m.

A voice

They're multi-coloured, Chris. They're not just green.

8:50 a.m.

Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO

Christopher Smillie

Sorry, they're striped.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

On a point of order, I think it's out of line to comment on the colour of a guy's socks at the table. This time I'll let it go.

8:50 a.m.

Some voices

Oh, oh!

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Go ahead, please, Mr. Smillie.

8:50 a.m.

Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO

Christopher Smillie

Thank you.

I'm here today representing the Canadian building trades, the almost 600,000 men and women who make up our membership, creating the literal foundation of our nation throughout Canada in every province and municipality. We represent the carpenters, the welders, the steamfitters, and every construction trade in between. As much as our members rely on construction work to put food on their table, the oil and gas sector relies on the construction industry. Construction activity on an oil and gas project is a major employer of our members. In the course of a year, nearly 40% of our national membership is actively engaged on an energy project in some way.

When we talk about construction in the oil and gas sector, we're really talking about two facets. We're talking about the construction of new facilities and the maintenance of capital assets or existing facilities. For example, in 2013, which just passed, in Alberta, our trades worked approximately 21 million new construction hours in oil and gas. The industry as a whole worked about 60 million hours.

At the same time, our members worked 30 million maintenance hours in the oil sands alone, just in Alberta. This doesn't take into account any of the work in Saskatchewan, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, any of the pipeline spreads or the consumer natural gas spread going on in the greater Toronto area right now. It doesn't include any of the hours on the cogeneration facilities in Ontario, like Goreway in Milton, in the GTA, that has employed thousands of people from around Ontario.

To be frank, 2012-13 wasn't a huge year for construction in oil and gas. At the height of the boom, in 2007-08, we did more than 40 million construction hours. The decrease in projects not only affects the number of jobs coming from new construction, but it also affects the number of jobs available in the long run.

When new construction increases, job increases are not just in new construction jobs, but also in maintenance jobs. It's simple. Every project we build requires workers not just to build it, but also to maintain it. In dollar terms, every dollar spent on new construction in oil and gas means $1.50 spent on maintenance costs down the road. So jobs that begin in new construction translate to jobs in the maintenance of the project in the coming years. These aren't just jobs in oil and gas; these are jobs that create jobs. The relationship between these two facets means infrastructure development and investment in construction projects in the oil and gas industry pay huge dividends in employment possibilities for the future of Canada. If you think about it, oil and gas projects are generally not small endeavours. These are big projects that give lots of young Canadians and apprentices opportunities for employment, and at the same time mean good, full-time jobs, with benefits, to workers in the skilled trades.

Think about this. In general, every billion dollars invested by an oil and gas company in construction means at least 4,000 direct construction jobs right away, not including the secondary and tertiary job opportunities in engineering, manufacturing, the service industry, and others.

So right now as we're here speaking, over in the major project management office, there are hundreds of billions of dollars of planned investment. Think of the tens of thousands of jobs, the income potential for middle-class families, the food on tables across Canada.

If you ask me, if you ask the Canadian building trades, how a decline in the oil and gas sector would affect employment and the standard of living in Canada, this is my answer. The more we invest in resource development and the infrastructure that comes with that, the more jobs in skilled trades we create. This means paycheques, good paycheques coming home to Canadian families. This means dollars going into the consumer economy. This means dollars going back into the economy. This means a solid quality of life for middle-class Canadians, the engine of our economy.

I hope you got a sense of some of the person-hours that our members have worked, some of the person-hours that are at stake, from my earlier testimony. The economic interest of our membership in the building trades is inextricably linked to that of Canada.

Another thing to consider, we did a membership survey not too long ago in Fort McMurray. At least 45% of the workforce there today was from somewhere else in the country. Right now there are 82,000 people living in camps full-time, from somewhere else in Canada.

This means the wages earned by those workers go back home to their communities: communities like Gander, Fredericton, Moncton, Hamilton, Burnaby, Laval, Abitibi, Halifax. So the economic benefit of these projects, regardless of their location in Canada, is immense.

When you take a plane across the country these days, in all likelihood you aren't sitting beside a banker or a lawyer anymore. Chances are you're sitting beside someone in the trades going to where the work is—on an oil and gas project.

There are challenges in our industry. There are issues of labour supply. There are issues of training delivery. These are issues of labour mobility. But nothing is insurmountable with the availability of work. With this abundance of work, we have the opportunity to get these challenges right. We're more likely to get training, to get mobility, and to get labour supply right during peak times than during the slow times when there's no work to dispatch people to.

We are at a critical point in the construction trades and construction industry. For those who, like me, took political science, the mode age is the most frequent age. Right now the mode age of construction workers in my membership is 51. It's one of Canada's oldest industries, the construction trades.

This sector is one of the engines of our economy. We need a vibrant and robust workforce. There's no better way to attract young people to an industry than by jobs being available. We need to revamp our thinking in Canada about the K-to-12 education model where everyone is encouraged to go to university. We're seeing people come to us after university and community college into apprentice programs later than we ever have, with ten years of little or no incremental attachment to the labour market—that is, good, sustainable jobs with incomes that can support a family. That's what we're talking about here.

I've told the committee before that innovation in the skilled trades is about going to work. In our view, this is the most important determinant of economic success. Without a solid construction sector, there are implications for the economy, including the people Peter represents.

When I appeared previously, I talked about pipelines. Perhaps the clerk could do me a favour and enter some of that testimony into the record. There's relevant information in that study as well. I decided to keep my remarks short today so that we could get to questions and talk about some more important issues.

Thank you for the invitation.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you very much for being here again, Mr. Smillie. We will consider that.

Our second witness today, from the Canadian Fuels Association, is Peter Boag, president and chief executive officer.

Welcome to you again. Go ahead, please, with your comments. You have up to seven minutes.

8:55 a.m.

Peter Boag President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Fuels Association

Good morning, Mr. Chair, and good morning members of the committee. It's indeed a pleasure to be here once again. I certainly want to extend my sincere thanks for asking the association to appear on your study of the cross-Canada benefits to developing Canada's oil and gas sector.

I have provided some handouts. I think you would have all seen some of that material in the past, but it's clearly relevant to today's discussion.

Canadian Fuels Association's members comprise the downstream component of Canada's oil industry. They're the refiners, the distributors, and suppliers, of transportation and home heating fuels, and the chemical feedstocks that go into a myriad of products that Canadians use every day. If you look in the kit and the fact sheet there will be a listing of our current members.

Refining is an integral component of Canada's oil and gas value chain. Refineries, in essence, are the crucial manufacturing intermediaries between crude oil as it comes out of the ground and the refined products that we as Canadians use every day. Canada has 18 refineries located in eight provinces, and with a total capacity to refine about two million barrels per day of crude oil. They contribute about $2.5 billion in direct GDP, and employ some 17,500 Canadians in communities across the country, all the way from Come By Chance, Newfoundland, to Burnaby, British Columbia.

In many communities these refineries are a major, if not the major, economic anchor in communities like Come By Chance; Saint John, New Brunswick; Lévis, Quebec; Sarnia; Regina; Edmonton. The refining industry, interestingly, is most important to Atlantic Canada, where it now represents about 10% of overall manufacturing capacity in the Atlantic region. I think it's also important to note that in terms of the quality of jobs, refinery workers earn well above average wages and salaries, two-thirds more than the overall Canadian average, and even 50% more than workers in the overall manufacturing sector. Nearly 75% of refinery workers have some form of post-secondary education. They're scientists, engineers, technologists, technicians. They're highly skilled, highly valued workers who get paid good salaries and wages, and obviously then contribute to the communities in which they live.

Currently, about 60% of the oil refined in Canadian refineries comes from domestic sources, either from western Canada or the Atlantic offshore. This proportion—happy story—is gradually increasing, and industry is certainly looking to substantially increase its access to and use of western Canadian crude through new infrastructure investments like the reversal of the Enbridge line 9 pipeline between Sarnia and Montreal. We're looking forward hopefully to a favourable decision today from the National Energy Board. Also, of course, there is TransCanada's energy east proposal that would convert a portion of its existing natural gas pipeline that runs from Alberta to Montreal and extend it from Montreal all the way to Saint John, New Brunswick. These projects could be game changers for refineries in eastern Canada with significant economic benefits to the region.

Eastern refineries currently have virtually no access to crude oil from western Canada. Crude oil from Canada's east coast offshore is used to some extent, but imports are really the main source of crude supply. It's paradoxical in today's environment that oil producers in western Canada sell their oil at a price discount due to lack of market access, yet eastern refiners import crude at a price premium because they can't access western crude. Western Canadian producers and eastern Canadian refiners would both gain from oil and gas transportation infrastructure, pipelines in particular, that would bring western Canadian crude to the east, so those refineries benefit from the significant growth in oil output in western Canada, and, of course, for western producers, access to eastern Canadian markets enables a higher value for the crude they produce.

I think most important to note is that, for eastern refiners, access to crude oil from western Canada is an important opportunity to increase their cost effectiveness and maintain their competitiveness in what is an intensely competitive and increasingly global petroleum refining business. It really opens the door to a greater choice in crude oil selection based on availability, grade, and price. This is where we see this as a potential game changer for refineries that, quite frankly, are significantly challenged competitively in the context of today's global market for refined products.

The benefit of western crude access to eastern refineries was well documented last year in a study and report from the Montreal Economic Institute. In a note published in August last year, MEI concluded that access to western crude would certainly help improve the profitability and competitiveness of eastern Canadian refineries. Also of note is that MEI observed that access to western Canadian crude could trigger significant new refinery investments to allow the refiners to process heavier crude that comes from Alberta—in particular, Alberta bitumen.

Specifically, Suncor confirmed last September that it would reconsider a previously shelved plan to build a coker to process heavier grades of crude at its refinery in Montreal, if Enbridge's line 9 project gets the green light. We're obviously very hopeful that this will be announced today. But Steve Williams, the CEO of Suncor, made it clear that the addition of a coker and that kind of investment in its Montreal facility depended on gaining access to western Canadian oil. That's line 9. The energy east proposal will provide significant additional capacity to bring western Canadian oil to Canadian refineries. West-to-east pipelines that provide eastern Canadian refineries with access to western crude will really help secure the future of those refineries and the jobs they provide and the communities they support. For me, that's a great example of how investment in energy infrastructure delivers economic benefits across the country.

I think I'll leave it at that and will look forward to your questions.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you very much for your presentation, Mr. Boag, and thank you again for being here today.

We will now go to the next witness on our list today. This is, by video conference from Fort McMurray, from Unifor, Roland LeFort, president, Local 707A.

Welcome to you, Mr. LeFort. Go ahead with your presentation for up to seven minutes.

9:05 a.m.

Roland LeFort President, Local 707A, Unifor

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to speak to this committee.

My name is Roland LeFort. I am a miner here in Fort McMurray. I've been here for 30-some years. I'm also currently president of Unifor Local 707A. We represent the workers at Suncor Energy, with more than 4,000 members. On behalf of those members I bring greetings, and also on behalf of our national president Jerry Dias and the more than 300,000 members of Unifor.

In my brief presentation today I want to focus mostly on the development of the oil sands, because I believe that the future of oil and gas is right here in Fort McMurray, for sure.

After reading some of the questions that might be on the theme for today, I think the discussion should be a little bit broader. I think we need to look more at answering what the development of this resource could do for our communities for the future, rather than just what it is doing now. When I talk about future, I am talking about the long term, of course. I believe that our discussion should be mostly centred around sustainability. It can't just be about a yes or no situation; we need to talk about how we develop this resource in a sustainable fashion.

I must say right off the bat that I believe in the science of climate change and think that science is going to be a game changer for us, unless we do our stuff properly.

While we can't argue that the development of the oil sands has not brought prosperity and economic growth to people, communities, and indeed our nation, I can't help but think about the fate of some communities that at one time were prosperous and were suddenly decimated by the collapse of the sector that sustained them. I think of many communities along the east coast after the loss of the fisheries; I think of those communities across Canada left nearly vacant after closures of paper mills; I think of cities like Sudbury and Hamilton and others, striving today to find alternatives for the depletion of the manufacturing sector. I see the same fate for communities like Fort McMurray and others, if we don't change the course we're on.

What we believe the nation needs today more than ever is a strategy for energy. We have a vast resource, yet today we seem to be challenged on how best to position ourselves to take advantage of it.

There only seem to be two positions in the argument on oil sand development. One, by industry and by government, is to develop it without too much intervention. People would say take it while the taking is good. The second position is clearly a position that says abandon development and just leave it in the ground.

The problem is that the latter seems to be gaining a lot of momentum. That latter position is likely to win unless we can come together to propose an alternative position, one that we could say would be sustainable development.

While we're busy today trying to convince Canadians that the best solution is pipelines going to the south and the west, we haven't really bothered to see the reaction of the societies in those directions. We see clearly today the reaction of the American people in their opposition to the Keystone XL, and we saw some reaction in Europe when we started talking about accessing Europe from our west coast. I can assure you that we'll see societies from all nations react in the same fashion, as I witnessed several years ago when participating in the climate change conference in Durban, South Africa.

Today we seem to be putting a lot of faith on the Asian market, but I can tell you, from the same conference, that the presentation made to us from the Chinese government was showing them on a much different trajectory from one we would think is good for us.

In fact, they were projecting reductions in fossil fuels and reductions in greenhouse emissions by 2020. Their proposal included going to nuclear energy and changing their transportation. I think we can say that we've witnessed last week in China—and Bejing especially, a city being shut down by smog—that their plan is going to be put forward with some kind of strength, I would suggest.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. LeFort, I'm just letting you know that you have a little bit more than a minute left, so if you can, get right to the focus of your presentation, because in a minute we have to go on with the next witness.

Go ahead.

9:10 a.m.

President, Local 707A, Unifor

Roland LeFort

Thank you.

So what does sustainability mean in a national strategy? It means that we identify the needs for Canada—our needs for energy—and reduce our dependency on imports and concentrate on supplying our own needs. By doing so, we develop our own infrastructure to move our resource from one end of the country to the other. Again, by doing so we can rejuvenate our secondary and tertiary industries, making Canada our best customer. I think by doing so we would position ourselves to better survive the ups and downs in the markets. Truly, we can make a real difference.

We can't do it without concentrating on the fact that we have some responsibilities in this world to reduce emissions. The idea of developing the strategy is to understand how much by way of emissions we will allow ourselves to produce and to control that amount by ensuring that the pace of development doesn't exceed those targets.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you very much.

We have to go on to the next witness, but I'm sure there will be questions for you.

Our final witness for today is from the Parkland Institute: Trevor Harrison, director, a professor from the University of Lethbridge.

Go ahead, please, sir, with your presentation.

9:15 a.m.

Trevor Harrison Professor and Director, Parkland Institute, University of Lethbridge, As an Individual

Thank you.

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, and also to the other participants on this panel today.

I want to thank the chair and the committee for this opportunity to present on this very important topic. I think my comments will be found to actually complement and expand in some ways some of the comments already made by earlier speakers.

Just as no business executive would go about retooling a factory without first making a cost-benefit analysis, any assessment of the economic benefits of Canada's oil and gas sector must also consider any costs involved. Public policy is all about trade-offs, of which discussions about the oil and gas sector or energy in general are a classic example.

Oil and gas production is not only an economic issue. It involves serious questions of political power, Canadian sovereignty, and even democracy. It also involves important questions regarding the environment and the oil and gas sector's specific contributions to global warming.

Given the nature of these hearings and the limits of time, however, I will here concentrate primarily on several important issues dealing with the economic impacts. The end of this report provides some references that may be of use to the committee in its deliberations.

Oil and gas in their raw form are what is commonly referred to as “staples”, just as are furs, grains, and fish. Much of Canada's history is that of a producer of raw products for other countries. The Canadian economic historian Harold Innis argued that Canada's founding as a hinterland producer of raw exports for world markets curtailed normal economic and political development. His staples theory of development went further, however, in suggesting, contrary to mainstream liberal economic theory, that countries such as Canada would find it difficult to break out of what he termed the “staples trap”. The nature of the trap was that while staple products were often seductively profitable in the short term, their prices, set on world markets beyond local or national control, were inherently unstable and thus subject to boom and bust. Additionally, argued lnnis, an economy built upon raw resources alone did not develop the forward and backward linkages and social structure characteristic of a fully developed economy

Oil and gas production as it has evolved is clearly more complicated than the sorts of staples about which lnnis wrote, such as furs. Moreover, Canada' s economy as a whole is not a one-trick pony.

At the same time, the Canadian economy in recent years has experienced a structural shift in which exports have become, in the words of Clarke and others, “increasingly concentrated in unprocessed or barely-processed resource products” of which oil and gas constitute a major part. For this reason alone, the broad principles of staples theory, specifically tied to the costs and benefits of oil and gas production, still pertain.

There are a number of specific issues I want to talk on, and I'll go to those.

First is financial costs. Resource development, especially in the oil and gas sector and more so in the Alberta oil sands, is particularly capital-intensive and requires a long time horizon. The potential of huge profits to be made through this private capital investment is matched by the potential of huge losses should the investment not pay off. In practice, this has meant government backstopping these investments—in effect, the public becoming the end holder of risk.

Next is employment. The oil and gas sector contributes considerable money directly to the state through either provincial royalties or corporate taxes, and indirectly through employee wages. Much of the employment involved in oil and gas production is indirect, however, tied to construction work, as we've heard, and to infrastructure or servicing.

This is particularly the case with current pipeline proposals, in which the bulk of jobs exist in the beginning stage of pipeline construction. To put oil and gas sector employment in context, Clarke et al. note that, “although 16,500 mostly well-paying direct jobs were created in the petroleum industry (mostly in bitumen-related developments) in the decade ending in 2011, this amounts to less than 1 percent of all the new jobs generated by the Canadian economy during this period.” One way of maximizing the employment benefits of oil and gas production would be though increased value-added production.

Next is upgrading or value added. The Alberta Federation of Labour, the Parkland Institute, and other groups have lobbied for the domestic upgrading of bitumen, as opposed to the export of raw product to the U.S. via the Keystone and other pipelines, in order to maintain value-added jobs in Canada.

Pipeline supporters, by contrast, argue that building capacity in Canada for domestic production is too expensive and that in any case Canada has huge amounts of available bitumen that might as well ship to the southern U.S., where upgrading capacity already exists.

Then there is pacing. Rapid development means, as already stated, a lot of construction jobs. The downside of this is enormous expense to the public purse, the attendant costs of social adjustment in many instances, and accelerated production of a non-renewable resource. The Parkland Institute has repeatedly suggested that greater long-term benefits would accrue to Alberta and Canada as a whole through a slower pace of oil and gas development.

Next is “crowding out"—economic trade-offs, in other words. Every economic development involves an investment of resources, including land, capital, and labour, the precise amounts of each depending on the type of enterprise and the stage of development. Any investment by an enterprise in oil and gas risks coming at the expense of investments that might have been made in other activities, including alternative energy.

Then there are multiplier effects. Some of the costs of investment in oil and gas are offset by gains in either backward or forward linkages, sometimes also referred to as multiplier effects. There is considerable economic activity in Canada related to manufacturing and services. Nonetheless, many of the indirect benefits of oil and gas production occur outside Canada. Foreign—primarily American-owned—companies make up 71% of the oil and gas companies operating in Canada and tend to source in their home countries. In short, at least some of the spinoff benefits and profits of oil and gas production leak out of the Canadian economy.

Next is oil price volatility. The direct economic benefits of oil and gas production can be enormous when the price of oil is high. But like all staple resource products, oil and gas is a notoriously volatile commodity. The price of oil has varied between $17 in 1999 and $145 just prior to the recent recession. The resultant booms and busts have real political and social consequences upon staples-based economies, something Alberta knows very well. But this volatility also has impacts upon the Canadian economy as a whole and arguably upon the Canadian dollar.

What about the Canadian dollar volatility? The impact of the price of oil upon the Canadian dollar is difficult to calculate and even more difficult to predict. An Enbridge study prepared for the northern gateway project argues that the value of the dollar will hit 85¢ by 2016 and remain there for 30 years. But a study by the Canadian Energy Research Institute in 2011 predicts that the Canadian dollar will rise to $1.23 by 2030 and $2.00 by 2044. The volatility and unpredictability of the dollar has negative consequences for oil and gas production and for the Canadian economy as a whole.

There are externalities. Externalities are those costs not built into the actual pricing of a commodity or product. Current economic thinking suggests that the end price of an economic activity should reflect—that is, internalize—the real costs of that activity. These often-externalized costs include the environment, but can also be seen to include such things as the costs of health, education, retraining, and infrastructure, as well as other social costs incurred by individuals, families, and communities impacted by oil and gas and other economic activities.

Finally comes income inequality. The economic benefits and costs of any activity may not be evenly distributed across or within populations or regions. Alberta has the highest median income in Canada, but a Statistics Canada report in 2012 showed that the bottom 90% of Albertans have not seen a real income rise in roughly 30 years. That's partly because of the effects of inflation, which rapid staples-based resource development tends to actually increase, and so it eats away at the value of the wages that people earn.

That's the end of my presentation, and I certainly welcome questions from the committee.

Thank you.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Harrison, for your presentation.

We'll go now directly to questions and comments.

In the first round, the seven-minute round, we have Ms. Block, Mr. Julian, and Mr. Regan.

Go ahead, please, Ms. Block, for up to seven minutes.

March 6th, 2014 / 9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses here this morning and thank you for your testimony.

We embarked on this study because we had a sense that the impacts of developing our oil and gas upon other sectors, such as the manufacturing, agricultural, and construction sectors and through them upon communities all across Canada, are very significant.

Mr. Smillie, your testimony this morning has certainly confirmed this. I'll just go back to something you said in your opening remarks. “These aren't just jobs in oil and gas; these are jobs that create jobs.”

You also highlighted, though, a number of challenges, such as training delivery, labour supply, and labour mobility. In economic action plan 2014 there are a number of measures to support the construction workforce, such as reaffirming the Canada jobs grant, the new Canadian apprentice loan, the employer EI top-up to apprentices and technical training, and the flexible apprenticeship delivery pilot.

I'm wondering how important these measures are for training, and in particular training in your industry, both now and in the future.

9:25 a.m.

Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO

Christopher Smillie

The Canada job grant is the first action that a federal government has taken on training in a long time. It's a step in the right direction. It will mean we're able to train more people through our training centres. We have close to 300 training centres across Canada and we currently only train members. But with the Canada job grant, we'll be able to expand that training to members of the public who are interested in receiving training in one of our construction trades.

The key part we like about the job grant is that it's aligned with what employers are willing to do. It requires employers to hire these people at the end of the training program. In our universe, employers will know that they need 35 carpenters to go to Kitimat between March and May. This will mean that between September and January, those carpenters would be able to go to a training facility, receive what they need in order to meet the requirements of the B.C. government to be a carpenter in that province, and get that training. It also means that the company that's doing the construction work will hire these people and will put them to work. We have a tough time sometimes getting companies to take on apprentices, and the job grant encourages them to do just that. As far as we understand from HRSDC, you will be able to use the job grant for training towards your curriculum. It's excellent.

The second part of your question was on the Canada student loan issue. This has been a real bee in the bonnet of construction apprentices for a long time, because theirs are short-duration courses—eight or nine weeks. Previously, to qualify for Canada student loans you needed, I think, an 18-week program.

It's an amazing change. It means our guys and girls will be able to go to their community college and get a loan to be able to take their in-class portion, something they were never able to do before.

The third thing I'll address really quickly, as I know you have limited time. I can't remember the acronym. It is the flexible program wherein there's going to be a pilot to look at delivering training in a different way. This will help solve the problem of the New Brunswick carpenter who is working in Alberta and who gets a letter from the New Brunswick government saying, you must come home and take your block training between such-and-such dates. However, the guy is employed and is making $85,000 a year and can't quit the job to go home to sit on EI and take the training.

This will hopefully allow that person to take the New Brunswick curriculum in Alberta at SAIT or NAIT. This will allow NAIT and SAIT to get paid in the way they need to be and deliver the New Brunswick curriculum.

We're really hopeful that those things will work out.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Okay. Thank you.

Here is my second question. We know that part of our responsible resource development plan—one of the pillars—is enhanced consultations with aboriginal communities. Embedded in that also are the opportunities that aboriginal communities and first nations would experience.

Does your industry work with aboriginal groups to identify employment opportunities or to even advance training for aboriginal persons?

9:30 a.m.

Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO

Christopher Smillie

Thanks for the question. It's timely.

We are working currently on a deal with the National Association of Friendship Centres, a national organization that works in urban areas. We're setting up a system whereby, when they identify candidates who are ready for our industry or who just need a bit of upgrading to be able to work in our industry, these people are being flagged, and we're going to give them front-of-the-line treatment into apprenticeship programs in a way similar to what we're doing for people when they come out of the armed forces through out helmets to hardhats initiative. The National Association of Friendship Centres is a key organization that we're linking up with to identify and to increase the penetration of our membership.

At the end of the day the companies have to commit to hire these folks as well, and so when we're in negotiations with these companies we're really pushing this activity and others to make sure that there are local workforce requirements also.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Just to follow that up, then, you try to ensure that the companies you're working with have some sort of strategy for the employment of aboriginal persons.

9:30 a.m.

Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO

Christopher Smillie

The best way to do it, we've found, is go directly to the purchasers of construction—the Suncors, the Shells, the CNRLs—and tell them when they make arrangements with their contractors to make it part of the contractual obligation between an energy company and a construction company that, if that company is a contractor of Suncor or of CNRL, it must do x, y, z and have an engagement plan.

We work really hard on the work sites to implement that kind of change. It's slow, but there are really good examples, and I could provide those examples to the committee in writing afterwards.