Evidence of meeting #23 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was yukon.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bill Streeper  Mayor, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality
Peter Turner  President, Yukon Chamber of Commerce
Dave Turchanski  President, Energy Services BC
Art Jarvis  Executive Director, Energy Services BC

9:35 a.m.

Mayor, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality

Bill Streeper

The figure of 200 years is the figure we're using that we've been involved in, but I'd also like to stress this 200-year figure did not exist 10 years ago. The advancement of drilling technology, especially the use of fracking, has opened up mass amounts.

If we have as much technology change in the next 10 years as we had in the last 10 years, we are basically back to the infancy stage on gas production and gas drilling. As the technology changes, we are looking at a far greater scope than this 200 years.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Thank you.

Do I still have time, Chair?

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

You have 15 seconds.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

I just want to thank you again for appearing. I think, again, it's for relevance. I think the rest of the country doesn't quite understand some of the procedures.

You heard the fracking question before and a lot of the myths surrounding that particular method of finding gas and oil now. Thanks for clarifying some of that, and thanks again for appearing at committee today.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Zimmer.

We go now to Ms. Charlton for up to five minutes. Go ahead, please.

9:35 a.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses. I know you're three hours behind us in terms of time zones, and I think the fact that you were prepared to appear before our committee at quarter to six your time is commendable and remarkable, and I thank you for being so energetic in your responses today.

As you probably know, this isn't the first time our committee has looked at natural resource development in Canada, and so we've had the privilege of hearing from other northerners about some of the barriers that prevent economic development in the northern regions.

I wonder, Mr. Turner and Mr. Streeper, whether you could talk to us a little bit about infrastructure investments that are necessary and that would be helpful in terms of economic development in your regions. I don't want to limit the conversation, but I would like you to include things like housing, transportation, the full gambit of infrastructure needs your region needs to have met in order to be able to maximize the benefits, which this committee is supposed to study.

Thank you.

9:35 a.m.

Mayor, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality

Bill Streeper

We have basically a road we call the SYD Road that runs to the east and to the north of Fort Nelson. This road was 100% built by the oil and gas industry. This road is presently used for recreational hunting by local citizens. It's used by first nations people to access their trapping territories and also for their hunting ability. This road has also been utilized by forest industries when they were operating here for the extraction of logs. And it is a complete, 100%, oil and gas paid road. They collect no money or have no support from any other industry, nor do they want any support for the use of this road. As long as it is public use it is completely available.

We also have another road that goes north and ties us into the communities of the southern Northwest Territories. This road was largely done by the oil and gas industry, and it is through the oil and gas industry that the possibility of a new bridge built on a river to accommodate larger loads of the oil and gas industry has already been in the process by the B.C. department of highways.

The road has been completely paved. We have a first nations settlement of Fort Liard just across the border that relies 100% on Fort Nelson for the support of that community. Again, that has been put in by the oil and gas industry.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Can I just follow up? So you're suggesting in your community there is no infrastructure deficit. Am I hearing that right?

9:40 a.m.

Mayor, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality

Bill Streeper

With participation with the government, we have no infrastructure deficit. It is all being supported by the oil and gas industry. It is through the LNG projects going on that we are receiving money from the provincial government to aid in the development of our community.

If it wasn't for the development of the gas industry and infrastructure, we would not have received this money from the provincial government, and it is $200 million over 20 years.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Thank you.

Mr. Turner, it's the same question to you about whether infrastructure needs are a barrier to economic development in your region.

9:40 a.m.

President, Yukon Chamber of Commerce

Peter Turner

We believe infrastructure deficits are a barrier to our development. I touched on the issue of hydroelectric power; for a long time we were the beneficiaries of surplus hydroelectric power generating capacity. Because some of that was originally built to supply mines that have subsequently shut down, right now we are at a stage where our growth has increased at approximately 3% a year to the point where we're consuming about 103% of the hydroelectric generating capacity that we have here in the territory, so we have to supplement that with diesel fired generators.

In that respect, if we were to have an indigenous oil and gas industry here, instead of having to ship oil 2,000 kilometres up here, it could be a source of both employment and also, quite frankly, a source of energy with a lower carbon footprint than we currently have in that we would not have to transport everything 2,000 kilometres to burn it up here. That's one potential opportunity.

And that ties in to the issue of transportation. We're at the end of a 1,500 to 2,000 kilometre supply chain for everything that we use up here. We have no rail connection, basically everything comes up the Alaska Highway by truck, so increased fuel costs obviously translate into increased costs for Yukoners for everything we consume.

So we see an opportunity for multiple benefits in being able to locally source energy that's trucked in today. That of course would also provide local employment. Another way to look at this is, perhaps oil and gas are also a bridging technology for us because we have traditionally been reliant upon hydroelectric generation. The problem here is that if we turn the shovel on the first new hydroelectric project, we're probably 10 or 15 years away from being able to light up a light bulb in here. So there's a gap in finding an electrical generation solution between now and when that next hydroelectric power plant comes online.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Thank you very much.

I think the testimony from British Columbia and Yukon highlights the differences in financing capacity between the territories and the provinces, and that may well make a big difference in the different outcomes in infrastructure.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Ms. Charlton.

We go now to Ms. Crockatt for up to five minutes.

April 8th, 2014 / 9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Thank you very much.

Thank you again to our witnesses for getting up early to be there. Those of us from the west realize just how early that feels.

I want to focus on you, Mr. Streeper, because I think this brings home the story for many people: what has happened in your communities with the advent of oil and gas. I wonder if you could give us a snapshot of the standard of living pre- oil and gas to now. How has the oil and gas industry positively affected the average person who lives in that area, and their lifestyle?

9:45 a.m.

Mayor, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality

Bill Streeper

The average person involved in the oil and gas industry in northeastern B.C. quite commonly has an income in excess of $100,000 a year.

I'm going to a personal aspect on this. I am the father of three children and the grandfather of seven. Before the advent of LNG, our family lived in four different cities; none of our children lived in this community because there was no 12-month employment. With the advent of LNG and the exploration for LNG, all seven grandchildren are now located in Fort Nelson.

This type of work and this type of employment has shown there is a future for young people to advance in employment and in business. It has made communities like Fort Nelson more whole when the younger people are not leaving to seek employment in other communities; they are employed here. It has aided schools, it has aided in development of the town, but the biggest thing about all this I have to stress is family life.

Family life has excelled. We have fresh water, we have a large community centre for recreation, we have large outdoor recreation facilities, we have all kinds of ball diamonds and soccer fields for families. When grandma's happy, grandpa's happy.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Can you tell us, do you have oil and gas pipelines right now—I think we know the answer—going through the Northern Rockies Regional Municipality? If so, how many?

9:45 a.m.

Mayor, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality

Bill Streeper

I can't count that.

We have, through the Northern Rockies, we cover 10% of the province of British Columbia. We are a regional municipality, the very first in British Columbia. We have thousands of miles of pipelines. My residence is located no more than approximately four kilometres from a major 36-inch pipeline. I'm also the resident who lives closest to the Spectra plant in Fort Nelson. I'd like to go on record as also saying that the only thing I've noticed from the Spectra plant is that I have no hair. Other than that...I see the plant every day out my front window.

We are well aware here of pipelines. We have a producing well that is approximately five kilometres from the main town of Fort Nelson. It is something everyone in the community is fairly familiar with.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Do you consider that to be a benefit to you to have those pipelines? Are they a safety hazard or a benefit? When you see them how do you feel about them?

9:45 a.m.

Mayor, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality

Bill Streeper

I could go on all day about the benefits of pipelines.

For one, every pipeline that exists is taxed. The Northern Rockies Regional Municipality gains from this taxation and so does the provincial government.

A pipeline, other than the maintenance people going to it, doesn't ask for anything back for the taxes they pay. They're in the ground, we receive a cheque every month for these pipelines, and right now a lot of that money coming in is paying for the support of our municipality. It pays for the support of our recreation and our education.

In the history of the pipeline and the gas—

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

I just have one quick question.

Can you just talk briefly about the three first nations agreements that you have there and what the benefits are that they've received from oil and gas?

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

A very brief answer please, Mr. Streeper.

9:50 a.m.

Mayor, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality

Bill Streeper

Again, the benefits of it are equalization payments, payments made for the use of the land on this, and a lot of the money goes directly to the first nations for their benefit, which they use on their local reserves.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Thank you so much for your answers.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Ms. Crockatt.

We go now to Ms. Moore, followed by Mr. Trost.

Go ahead please, Ms. Moore.

9:50 a.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for Mr. Turner.

I went to a mining conference in Vancouver. The Yukon had a kiosk there, and I had the chance to speak to several people. I realized what tremendous potential the Yukon has as far as mining projects are concerned.

What can we do to ensure that both the oil and gas sectors benefit from development, so that development in one sector doesn't come at the expense of development in the other? The fact is they often share the same labour pool. If both sectors experience a boom at the same time, it will be tough to find workers to get projects started.

What can we do, then, to prevent the two sectors from hindering one another?