Official Languages Committee on May 4th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this 14th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

This morning, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3), we have our study of immigration as a development tool in official language minority communities.

We have the pleasure to receive three witnesses. I think at this very moment the third witness is coming along. As they are seated, I'll take this moment to introduce you to the first witnesses we have this morning. We've had them here recently and they're back with us this morning.

We have with us Ms. Suzanne Bossé, the director general of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada.

Welcome back.

This morning, she is with Sylvie Moreau, acting assistant director, immigration.

Bienvenue, madame Moreau.

We also have with us Mr. Robert Donnelly of the Quebec Community Groups Network.

Welcome back.

You thought you were done with us, but it ain't over till it's over, like hockey, right?

Also here this morning is Ms. Michelle Dupuis, director of Community Support and Network Development. She is here specially to discuss the subject before us.

We are also hearing from Ms. Sylvia Martin-Laforge, director general.

Welcome, Ms. Martin-Laforge.

Just arrived from Manitoba, we have the representatives of the Société franco-manitobaine. Welcome to you. You will have the time to settle in, since we'll be hearing the addresses from the other witnesses first.

Ms. Bintou Sacko, Francophone Hospitality manager, and Mr. Ibrahima Diallo, chairman of the board, welcome to you too.

Without further ado, we'll hear from the representative of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada.

[Suzanne Bossé, Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

Good morning, everyone.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for inviting us to make a presentation as part of your study on immigration to the francophone and Acadian communities. In preparing our presentation, we revisited the discussions that took place in this committee during a similar study in 2003. From the committee's report at the time, we were able to see just how current many issues still are, but also how far we have progressed in seven years.

It must be borne in mind that the immigration file is a very recent one; it originated with the “Dialogue” tour organized by the FCFA in 1999-2000. Let's look at the advances that have been made since then.

In its 2003 report, your committee encouraged our communities to take over this file and to make immigration a long-term collective project to ensure our development. We have done that; we have taken the leadership role.

Networks have been put in place in virtually all provinces and territories to promote the recruitment, intake and integration of newcomers in our communities.

In 2007, at the Summit of Francophone and Acadian Communities, we adopted a definition that includes in our francophonie every person who chooses to live and communicate in French, regardless of his or her mother tongue or origin. An analysis recently conducted for the FCFA of the progress that has been made in implementing the Summit vision shows that immigration is the priority on which the largest number of organizations in the francophone community are focused.

That's not counting the impact in the field. I'm very pleased to see the representatives of the Franco-Manitoban community here this morning, in particular Francophone Hospitality, which has done an excellent job in support of hundreds of newcomers since it opened. I'm also thinking of the Centre d'accueil et d'intégration des immigrants du Moncton métropolitain, of the three major francophone immigration support networks in Ontario and of the Francophone Settlement Centre in Edmonton, to name only a few.

Let's also consider the figures. A snapshot of the French-language immigrant population reveals a number of issues and challenges that we are taking note of. It also shows some promising advances. We note that the immigration population whose first official language spoken is French, alone or with other languages, represents 13% of the population of our communities, compared to 8% in 1991.

French-language immigrants now represent more than 20% of the francophone population in British Columbia and more than 10% in Newfoundland and Labrador, Ontario, Alberta and the Yukon. The fact remains that we are still far from achieving our minimum target of 4.4% of the total immigrant population that enters the country every year.

However, our communities are changing, and we have done more than simply take note of that fact. We have seized the leadership role and have taken action to recruit, take in and integrate francophone newcomers.

Many factors have helped us in this effort. The current government launched the Strategic Plan to Foster Immigration to Francophone Minority Communities in 2006. I also want to note the renewed leadership of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, particularly the Steering Committee, in which the FCFA has moreover played a prominent coordination role.

That said, the immigration file is a very complex one and presents a number of challenges. I am going to touch on three major classes of challenges: recruitment, integration and intake.

First let's talk about the recruitment of newcomers. A noteworthy advance has been the organization of “Destination Canada” tours, through the leadership of Canada's embassy in Paris. Our communities have been taking part in this program for a number of years now, together with their provincial and territorial governments, and we are already seeing promising results.

However, recruitment also means preparing for arrival in Canada. Our experience in recent years has taught us the importance of orientation and preparation sessions preceding candidates' departure to facilitate their economic integration once in Canada. We know that these sessions are currently being offered in China, the Philippines and India, and soon will be offered in London. However, they are not being offered in francophone countries, and this is definitely a shortcoming that must be corrected.

Now let's talk about integration issues. It will not be news to you that the recognition of credentials is a crucially important aspect of economic integration.

There are a number of promising initiatives in this area. In particular, the Consortium national de formation en santé has developed a project designed to assist professionals trained outside Canada. In this credential recognition file, however, we must deplore the major weaknesses in interdepartmental and intergovernmental cooperation, particularly with regard to key professions in the francophone community such as speech therapy, teaching and medical disciplines.

It is essential that we correct this situation. There is a clear role for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada and the economic departments of the provinces and territories, but also for Citizenship and Immigration Canada in the area of coordination.

Since we're talking about provincial and territorial governments, I want to say how pleased we are that the Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie has made immigration its major priority. In particular, the Conference met with its network of francophone affairs officers in March and, for the first time, also invited those responsible for the francophone immigration file in the provinces and territories.

However, the action taken by the provincial governments must be linked to the communities' priorities. It is essential that the provinces and territories set francophone immigration targets, and here I will cite the example of Manitoba, which is actively using its provincial nominee program.

Another step forward is definitely the systematic inclusion of language clauses in federal-provincial/territorial agreements, as this committee recommended in 2003, and we want to recognize that fact. That said, however, we must monitor how those clauses are interpreted and enforced in the field.

This leads me to intake-related issues. As I said earlier, a number of francophone immigration networks have been established across the country. Some have already proven themselves, while others are developing. All need reinforcement. Achieving the objectives of the Strategic Plan, particularly with regard to the intake and integration of newcomers, will depend on our ability to support francophone intake and settlement structures already in place and to create new ones.

Lastly, now that we've discussed the issues concerning the recruitment-intake-integration chain, let's talk about evaluation. Citizenship and Immigration Canada currently has a set of criteria based on the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality and on its own programs. However, that does not take into account, for example, what is being done at Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. To get a complete picture of our progress, to determine the actual impact our actions have had on communities and immigrants, we need an evaluation framework that goes beyond the Roadmap, beyond the department, an evaluation framework that includes all partners and be defined with the communities.

Ultimately, we somewhat get the impression that we are delivering the same message as two weeks ago in our appearance on the mid-term evaluation of the Roadmap: the future of the francophone immigration file will depend on strong leadership, better interdepartmental coordination, better intergovernmental cooperation and better linkages with the communities.

So I will close with four major recommendations that I invite you to include in your report:

That a national immigration policy be put in place in the francophone and acadian communities. That policy, which is referred to in the Strategic Plan, would more clearly define intergovernmental and interdepartmental cooperation in this matter and would ensure better linkages between government and community actions.

That Citizenship and Immigration Canada work with Industry Canada, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada and with the provinces to develop a plan for the economic integration of francophone immigrants. From time to time, it should be possible to relax program criteria and to provide for targeted initiatives for francophone immigrants.

That Citizenship and Immigration Canada develop a comprehensive evaluation framework for francophone immigration that includes all partners and is developed jointly with the communities.

That the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration also proceed with a study on francophone immigration and, more broadly, that it include the issue of francophone immigration in all its studies.

The work that awaits us in the francophone immigration file is of course considerable, as are the challenges and issues we must face. We have been committed to this path for 10 years now, and we are here to stay because we have a vision—a vision of open, inclusive and diversified communities where all francophones, regardless of origin, can find a home, grow and develop and contribute to the development of their community. It is these living communities that we want for our children.

Thank you. I am now ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you for those recommendations, Ms. Bossé. We take particular note of those concerning the recognition of credentials in key fields for French language learning here.

We're going to continue with the people from the Quebec Community Groups Network.

Mr. Donnelly, would you like to start? Ms. Dupuis will follow.

[Robert Donnelly, President, Quebec Community Groups Network]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

Good morning, mesdames et messieurs.

Thank you again for this opportunity to talk about the immigration dossier. It is, of course, important to us.

You're probably sitting there wondering what I'm doing here again on immigration. It seems like, as Mr. Blaney has suggested, we have a special subscription to this committee, but this is an important issue for us.

I will be rather brief, and then, with your permission, Mr. Blaney, I will ask Michelle to address the committee.

It is clear that Quebec needs immigrants. The continued vitality of our province and, within that, of the English-speaking community, greatly depends on immigration. However, under the assumption that English-speaking Quebec has already largely benefited from immigration, little attention has been paid to the needs of the English-speaking official language minority community in Quebec.

Yet renewal is of critical importance to the development and vitality of our community. The goal of the QCGN is to encourage politicians and policy-makers to consider this fundamental issue as the Standing Committee on Official Languages undertakes this new study on immigration in official language minority communities.

I read with great interest the blues reports from last week's meetings. I was very pleased to see that Mr. Jack Jedwab was talking about, obviously, the English-speaking minority in Quebec, the other official minority community.

Cultural diversity is a fact in Canadian society. This trend will only increase in the future. During the Bouchard-Taylor commission's “reasonable accommodations” hearings in 2007 and 2008, the QCGN stated that the debate on the cohabitation of different communities was essential and that it should focus on the equilibrium between the rights of the majority and the rights of the minority.

We believe it is vital that we understand who makes up our minority communities and that we understand their values and their needs. During the commission, the QCGN also highlighted ways in which immigration has positively affected society and reminded the commission that our English-speaking community is recognized as being progressive in the way it has dealt with our changing community.

In 2006, immigrants to Quebec for whom English was the only official Canadian language knew upon arrival that they represented approximately 20% of the total provincial immigration. That was up from under 16% in 2002. This proportion actually exceeds the share of Quebec's English mother-tongue population, which stands at just under 10%.

Considering the important percentage of immigrants who are English speakers, we see that it's inevitable that English-language institutions will be involved in the process of integrating newcomers and managing diversity.

We are happy to note that a significant portion of Quebec's intelligentsia do not support the alarmist views of sovereigntists like Pierre Curzi, the PQ cultural critic who recently argued that too many new immigrants were integrating into the English-speaking community. André Pratte, the chief editor of La Presse, has remarked that while French is threatened by English, the threat would remain even if all English speakers left the province. In other words, Pratte recognizes that the threat is not coming from Quebec's English-speaking community, but rather from the dominance of the English language in a global world.

Ideally, the QCGN believes that the English-speaking community could be seen as a bridge to help newcomers who speak English to learn French and integrate into Quebec society. It is important to note that language and community are distinct issues. Indeed, the English-speaking communities of Quebec are excellent role models for new immigrants because, despite facing similar challenges, they have successfully learned to speak French and have respectfully integrated into Quebec society.

Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I will introduce Michelle Dupuis, who has been working for us for about five years on a full-time basis in our Montreal office.

Michelle is responsible for two major dossiers. One is the promotion of community development and vitality in our English communities across Quebec. Secondly, she has been very active in the diversity and development of GMCDI, the Montreal community development initiative.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Please go ahead.

[Michelle Dupuis, Director of Community Support and Network Development, Quebec Community Groups Network]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

Historically, the arrival of new immigrants has played a fundamental role in shaping English-speaking Quebec, particularly in the greater Montreal area, where the diversity of the population is a defining characteristic of our community.

As mentioned in the QCGN's presentation to this committee on February 17, 2003, immigrants have always played an important role in the vitality of English-speaking Quebec. We value the diversity arising from immigration and generally view newcomers as making significant contributions to our community and Quebec society.

In a brief to the National Assembly committee on immigration in 2007, the QCGN argued that immigrants whose first official language spoken was English could identify with the English-speaking community while successfully integrating into Quebec society.

As Dr. Jack Jedwab explained in his presentation to you last week, the choice of definition, whether it be mother tongue or first official language spoken, leads to significantly different numbers. The first are immigrants who readily identify with the English-speaking communities of Quebec. The latter is a group that may have more affinity to the English-speaking community because they are more comfortable in English than French.

Identity and identification are at the intersection of official languages policy and immigration policy in Quebec, and these issues impact the more substantial challenges of renewal and retention that our community must address.

In his latest annual report, the Commissioner of Official Languages, Mr. Graham Fraser, dares to tackle the issue of renewal of our community head-on. Mr. Fraser acknowledges that the community has many years of experience in integrating newcomers and managing cultural diversity. He suggests:

...it would be important for English-speaking community organizations to obtain the resources they need to continue working on integrating newcomers and helping them realize their full potential in Quebec.

For a multitude of reasons, the federal government has had difficulty fulfilling its responsibilities toward the English-speaking minority community under part VII of the Official Languages Act.

First, responsibility in the area of immigration has been devolved to the provincial government.

Second, the creation of a steering committee by Citizenship and Immigration Canada for francophone minority communities did not have an equivalent for the other official language minority community. The strategic framework and summary of initiatives that was produced by the steering committee did not consider or contribute to the vitality of our community.

Finally, the report tabled in 2003, entitled “Immigration as a Tool for the Development of Official Language Minority Communities”, was unable to address the needs of English-speaking immigrants to Quebec. We are here today to offer some innovative ideas and hopefully start a dialogue around this issue.

Too often, immigrants to Quebec who speak English fall between the cracks, and the federal government has an opportunity to offer them services and help them integrate into Quebec and Canadian society through the English-speaking community. This can be done in a win-win fashion, particularly in the regions of Quebec.

The provincial government has a strong desire to regionalize new immigrants. There are English-speaking communities in most regions of Quebec, and if English-speaking immigrants were able to count on those communities for guidance, services, and networks to help them integrate, this might motivate them to move to the regions. Without this support system, new immigrants are more likely to remain in Montreal, where they will find support from their own communities.

This is one area where the federal government can play a role in supporting the vitality and development of English-speaking communities: by helping those organizations working in the regions to offer services such as referral services for French as a second language, help in seeking jobs, and employment referral services.

Secondary migration of immigrants is something that both the province and the English-speaking community would like to avoid. An interesting--although slightly outdated--poll produced by CROP and the Missisquoi Institute in 2000 shows the reasons why immigrants who speak English tend to leave the province.

The poll reveals that they are more inclined to leave for educational and economic opportunities. Those are the main reasons they cited. They also cited discrimination and problems associated with integration as influencing the decision to leave the province.

As the QCGN suggested in 2003, English-speaking institutions can provide a sense of community to immigrants while facilitating the transition to Quebec society and its linguistic reality. Successful integration is closely linked to the institutional vitality of communities, and Quebec's English-speaking population is no exception.

Mr. Chairman, as you and your fellow committee members sit down to write up your report and recommendations on immigration as a development tool in official language minority communities, we hope you will address the need for renewal of our community. We also hope that politicians and policy-makers will invest in this some time and innovative thinking that will inform longer-term investments in Quebec, ahead of the next road map.

What we would like to see is more research, particularly action-based research such as pilot projects, that would lead to meaningful investment in the development of Quebec's English-speaking minority community. In the meantime, we suggest that more multi-sectoral and interdepartmental efforts be put into an assessment of the needs of the English-speaking minority in terms of immigration, immigrant retention, and community renewal.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Ms. Dupuis and Mr. Donnelly.

We'll now continue with a representative from the Société franco-manitobaine.

[Ibrahima Diallo, Chairman of the Board, Société franco-manitobaine]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, everybody.

Our presentation will be made in two parts. First, I'm going to provide some background for the Manitoban model—since everyone talks about models—a model that should definitely not be exported like that. Then I'm going to let Ms. Bintou Sacko make a detailed presentation to you on what Francophone Hospitality does.

When we talk about Manitobans, it has to be said that there are 47,000 Franco-Manitobans, two-thirds of whom are concentrated in Winnipeg. I think it's a good idea to keep that fact in mind. The rest are scattered across some 40 villages around Winnipeg, more specifically to the south. However, it must be said that there are more than 100,000 people in Manitoba who speak French. That in a way shows the importance of French, which is not just spoken by old stock Franco-Manitobans.

In addition, three Winnipeg neighbourhoods are designated bilingual: Saint-Boniface, Saint-Vital and Saint-Norbert. This creates a network, a nucleus. I think the francophonie is very important, since we're talking about bringing francophone immigrants to our communities. We also have a major asset. We have more than 50 francophone agencies, including the Centre culturel franco-manitobain, the CDEM, which is very much concerned with the economy, ANIM, the Agence nationale et internationale du Manitoba, which is also concerned with the economy, the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface, an institution that has been in existence since 1918, the Cercle Molière, which is one of the oldest theatre companies in North America in any language, the weekly La Liberté, the Centre du patrimoine, and so on. We also have well-established institutions in Saint-Boniface. So all that lends considerable importance to the issue of the vitality of francophones.

I won't go back over the historical points that you all know. Manitoba has been subject to measures since 1890, with the Official Language Act, which abolished French-language instruction in the public schools. To go from a francophone majority population in the 1860s to a francophone population of 4.3% of total population in 2010, some events definitely had to occur. I don't want to go back over the history because everyone knows it. In addition to this abolition, there were internal migrations that had the effect of diluting the francophone population in Manitoba. Now there are German speakers, Ukrainians, Filipinos and Icelanders. These populations are rapidly expanding. However, in the meantime, the francophone population has stagnated, as it were, and even declined. Assimilation doesn't help, and that's why immigration is important. All these populations that I've just named have also developed through immigration.

In one sense, the page has been turned, since Manitobans now form a proud, modern, dynamic and resistant community that wants to achieve its full potential, to continue living in French and to contribute to the development of the province and of the country. That is why the community has organized. Work is being done on a number of aspects, including sectoral, community, cultural, communication and other aspects.

Here's the point I want to make. An effort at reflection was started in 2001, at the very time when we took a close look at how to function within society, and when we asked ourselves what we were going to become in the next few years. Five strategic axes were developed with the intention of “expanding the francophone space”. We established a joint strategy for the period from 2001 to 2050 in response to the question concerning what we wanted to become in the coming years. This strategy to expand the francophone space consists of five axes, which focus first of all on old stock francophones. We want them to be proud of what they are and proud to ensure continuity of the francophonie through their families.

There are also what we in Manitoba call exogamous couples. The data on this phenomenon are extremely important because many young people under 20 years of age—I think it's 60 percent—are the product of couples in which each member comes from a different official language community. There are the newcomers who are having a significant impact, there are bilingual anglophones who must not be forgotten, and there are even unilingual anglophones. Consequently, all kinds of action is being taken to find support, to develop the francophonie—I don't mean “to sell the francophonie” since people are already open to it—to ensure that the francophonie is accepted and that it serves as a development lever for our communities.

I believe there has really been a great expansion in this area since 2001. It should be noted that, between 1960 and 1990, we took in roughly 30 francophone immigrants a year. Starting in 1990, that figure increased to 200, and now it's approximately 300. The objective is to take in 700 and even 1,400. Those figures I've just cited have been established based on the representation of the francophone population in our communities. They are also related to the provincial strategy to increase the number of immigrants generally. We're asking that a percentage of francophone newcomers be included in the calculations for increasing the number of immigrants. Having regard to assimilation and all kinds of things, we'll thus be able to maintain the situation of the francophone community.

I'll close by saying that it was on that basis that we asked ourselves how we could welcome these francophones who come to us from outside the province, hence the creation of Francophone Hospitality—I'll leave it to Bintou to talk to you about that. We've put structures in place to welcome francophones to an environment in which they are part of the minority, which involves preparing them to live in that type of environment. Indeed, not all jobs are necessarily found in francophone settings. Even the vast majority of old stock Franco-Manitobans work for anglophone organizations. Consequently, language proficiency is very important, in both French and English. That's necessary as well.

Earlier we talked about credential recognition, which is also a fundamental issue. In general, francophone countries do not have the same model, compared to the anglophone countries of Africa, for example. These are not the same elements. Consequently, an enormous effort must be made in this regard.

There is also the question of adult immigrants, whom we often tend to ignore, more specifically the issue of refugees. Manitoba takes in a disproportionate number of refugees among its immigrants. Sixty percent of immigrants who settle in French-speaking Manitoba are refugees. Even with all the challenges that entails, we absolutely have to consider enabling them to earn a diploma, to finish their secondary education and to go to university or to professional schools.

We currently have the Centre d'apprentissage franco-manitobain for adult training. Two years ago, there were 30 students, and we think there will be 150 this year. They barely have premises where they can study, but it's an outstanding success. It's important to think about these people as well, who have not necessarily taken training, and to enable them to acquire skills on site so they can contribute to the development of society.

I'm going to close very quickly. We're also addressing the housing issue, employment, and so on. However, we'll now let Bintou tell you about Francophone Hospitality as such.

[Bintou Sacko, Francophone Hospitality Manager, Société franco-manitobaine]

Good morning, everyone. Thanks to committee members for this opportunity to present Francophone Hospitality in Manitoba to you. I've been the Francophone Hospitality manager since the organization was created in December 2003. I'm just going to present the hospitality structure and services.

Francophone Hospitality, which is funded by Citizenship and Immigration Canada and the Province of Manitoba, is a Franco-Manitoban community initiative. Earlier Ibrahima mentioned that, in 2001, when immigrants began settling in the community, the community got together to decide what we were going to do. What were we going to do to integrate them into the Franco-Manitoban community?

That's where the entire issue started and it was from that moment that the structure of Francophone Hospitality was put in place. At the time, in December 2003, there was one person and the structure quietly evolved. Today, we have some 13 employees at Francophone Hospitality. When the centre opened, we took in 30 immigrants. Now the organization receives about 350 immigrants a year.

What classes of immigrants do we take in? We take in landed immigrants, including economic immigrants, those who apply through the federal and provincial programs to come and settle here. They have chosen Manitoba or Canada as their destination country. We're talking about refugees and international students who are at the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface who are finishing and who want to apply for permanent residence in Manitoba. So we're talking about these three clienteles. There are also visitors who come from time to time to gather information on the immigration component. We give them the information and present Manitoba to them. If they so decide, they can settle there.

The Francophone Hospitality program is spread over four weeks, when an immigrant arrives in Manitoba. In the first week, there is the welcome at the airport. What makes our program special is that the approach is very much based on the clients and the assistance and support we can provide them. When immigrants arrived, we used to give them brochures and documents that we asked them to read and then we asked them to get oriented. We've realized that's not what helps immigrants. They need assistance and support, regardless of immigrant class. We took the clients and we made them our central concern. We asked ourselves what they needed on arrival so that they could appreciate the community, get to know it and know what is offered there to assist them in integrating. It was by focusing on the client that we built the Francophone Hospitality service.

First, we go and welcome them at the airport. It turns out we've already been in contact with them. Then we make a reservation for them at the hotel or find them housing, where they can stay temporarily while we go and assist them in administrative matters—everything they have to do in relation to the act, the rules of Canadian society and to know exactly what there is.

Second, we accompany them in the community and with services to establish a connection between them and the services in that community, particularly in the francophone community. All immigrants who arrive at our centres are francophone. They are unilingual. We know that being unilingual in a anglophone majority province is a challenge. They have to learn the language. It's very important for them to know what resources are available in their community and to which they have access to facilitate their integration. We try to create that connection as soon as possible. All that's done in the second week.

In the third week, we sit down with the immigrants to establish objectives. We look at what motivated them to come to Manitoba. If there is a reason, we try to define the objectives they would like to achieve. Why did they immigrate to Canada? We check that with the clients. We look at the short, medium and long terms. We try to make a plan with the immigrants.

We do all that through our follow-up program, which is developed. After one month, three months, six months and a year, we follow up with the clients to see how far they've gone in their immigration effort. We try to determine whether their integration is going well, whether it's not going well or whether they're encountering challenges.

How can we help them with those challenges so that things go well? That's the follow-up program we've developed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Ms. Sacko, perhaps you could wind up and then we'll move on to questions.

[Bintou Sacko]

I'm going to conclude quickly.

Among other things, we also provide them with moral support. We have a network of volunteers consisting of members of the community. This network supports the help we provide in our efforts. We have a twinning program, which is also excellent. We also have awareness programs. Lastly, I'm going to conclude with awareness: we touch on a lot of sectors.

If there are any questions afterwards, I could elaborate on them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

One thing is certain: this makes us want to be welcomed that way when we arrive.

Thank you very much.

We'll start with Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This is broad. First, the francophone population in Canada, outside Quebec, represents slightly more than 4% of total population—Ms. Bossé, you mentioned 4.4%. We all agree that francophone immigration, again outside Quebec, represents less than 2%, that is 1.9%.

If the Canadian act—and I believe this is the case—requires immigration to be a faithful reflection of the demographics or of the demographic weight of anglophones and francophones, we are currently violating our own laws. That said, it's not by saying so that we can solve the problem; it's by acting.

Ms. Bossé and Mr. Diallo—I'll come back to the issue of Quebec later—how do you suggest we get to 4.4%? I think we should probably go beyond that if we want to restore a certain balance. How are we going to do it?

[Suzanne Bossé]

That represents a lot; it's a big question. In fact, the Strategic Plan to Foster Immigration to Francophone Minority Communities is a plan over 15 years designed to achieve that minimum target of 4.4%. For the Roadmap, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration has identified a target of 1.8% which, in our opinion, could be higher.

What do we do? First, we determine that this is a priority. We make sure that our departments sit down, work together and coordinate. We make the necessary investment in recruitment, intake and economic and social integration of our newcomers. We've provided a few ideas. This issue alone would take up another entire session.

[Ibrahima Diallo]

I'll simply sum up an answer by saying that we have to keep going. The various orders of government, federal, provincial and the communities, should be able to work together so these strategies can succeed. There has to be coordinated action by these various orders of government to ensure that we not only seek out francophone immigrants, but also, when they come, that they find ways to stay in the communities.

The retention issue will also arise. I think it's extremely important: the idea is not to bring them in and have them disappear after that. The idea is to find ways so that these people can integrate into the communities in a lasting way so they can definitely reinforce this francophonie.

Based on the example we had, if the province and the federal government set objectives, work in a coordinated manner and the communities are also able to join in, I believe that can improve matters.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I have two more questions.

My first one is to the QCGN.

Mr. Donnelly, I think you mentioned that you would like to have the equivalent of the steering committee that is at the Ministry of Citizenship and Immigration. Given the Quebec-Canada agreement on immigration, does it not flow that there would be such a committee in the relevant department in Quebec?

My second question is for everyone.

In Canada, more than 80% of people, I believe, live in urban areas. Obviously, the definition of urban area may vary, but let's suppose we're talking about centres of more than 10,000 inhabitants.

Why do we expect immigrants to want to do things differently?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge, Director General, Quebec Community Groups Network]

I'd like to answer your first question, Mr. Bélanger.

With regard to what we're asking, it's obvious that the province has to be involved. Moreover, in the past two years, but especially last year, an enormous amount of progress has been made by Quebec's Immigration Department on this retention idea. They've even managed to start establishing pilot projects.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Is there an umbrella committee on which the department sits?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

No, not that I know of. There isn't any with the community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, everyone.

Labour market integration is one of the major challenges facing newcomers. We tell them to come to Canada, to an English or French area, depending on the minority, and we show them the work that is available in the region. In Quebec, for example, 80% of immigrants wind up in Montreal. Efforts have been made for a portion of immigrants to be directed to the regions. However, immigrants sometimes return to Montreal. In my city, in Gatineau, we find 4% of immigration to Quebec. You get an idea of the picture? And yet, it's a centre, but Montreal has a very great power of attraction.

Earlier you mentioned the birth place of Louis Riel, Saint-Vital, as well as Saint-Norbert and Saint-Boniface, which are now part of Greater Winnipeg. However, Winnipeg represents roughly half of the population of Manitoba. So we're still talking about a major centre. For obvious reasons, small villages like La Broquerie, St. Jean Baptiste and all those along the Red River to the south don't benefit from this immigration, or at least not as much as the centres you referred to earlier. I'm putting my question to people who work in the field, in Manitoba and Quebec.

What options are you considering? The problem is always there, and it's no one's fault. Do we have to find a way to revitalize the communities, to ensure immigrants have jobs and to recognize their credentials, which is a provincial jurisdiction? They need jobs in the communities that are consistent with their training.

The people from Manitoba could answer first, then leave some time for our friends from Quebec.

[Ibrahima Diallo]

Thank you very much.

Work is indeed what determines whether immigrants will settle in a given region. It's a fundamental factor. There's also the entire matter of support from social networks. These people have to be associated with something. That's also a fundamental aspect.

Furthermore, in Manitoba, some immigrants are interested in non-francophone regions. Immigration is currently booming in some regions. These are people who come from Central European or Eastern European countries and who are extremely well organized. One of the fundamental reasons why they go to those regions is that work is guaranteed there. Some areas of rural Manitoba are rapidly expanding as a result of a flourishing labour market that enables these people to settle. Schools are there for them. In general, the language issue is resolved very easily, which may not be the case for francophones.

Now we're increasingly seeing people who want to settle in rural areas, teachers, for example. That's just starting and that trend must obviously be reinforced because if there's no employment in rural areas, people won't settle there. Perhaps it's like the chicken and the egg. You wonder which comes first, but to attract people to those areas, they definitely have to be guaranteed work and a decent life for themselves and their families.

[Michelle Dupuis]

Absolutely. In terms of your question, I think that capital of attraction and retention of communities and official language minority communities is exactly the reason an immigrant would necessarily choose to go away from a metropolitan region. Because you're right: that's where the opportunities exist. But its support networks are there and services are in place, and regional associations in different regions of Quebec, in particular, are able to offer services that better support them. That would be a strategy to have immigrants in different regions--other than Montreal.

In particular, Citizenship and Immigration Canada is working with the QCGN and with a professor at the University of Sherbrooke who is looking at specifically this issue in four regions of Quebec. They're analyzing the capital of attraction and retention of immigrants that the English-speaking community has by offering its support system and its network. Soon we'll be able to present an evidence base on that issue and give you more concrete strategies based on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

In my constituency, in Saint-Anselme and Saint-Damien, immigrants arrive from Montreal by bus and come to meet labour needs.

We're going to move on to Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to welcome our guests.

First I'm going to speak to the people from the Société franco-manitobaine.

Earlier you said you went to welcome people at the airport. You talked about providing assistance and support. Is that a project? Are you receiving government assistance in order to carry it out?