Official Languages Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Weston, you have the floor.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome to all our guests.

I studied at York University's Osgoode Hall law school and had the honour of being one of two students who sat on the university's board. I was very proud of Glendon College. I suppose there is still an association between that college and York University.

Ms. Pilon, I am originally from British Columbia, where the association is flourishing. There are programs like the one at Guillam Lake, in northern B.C. That influence on the francophone world of British Columbia is really tremendous.

Mr. Lévesque, I was struck by your comments. I believe you put the emphasis on the need for a comprehensive or centralized strategy for all of Canada. If you were the prime minister, what would your strategy be for developing a program that would be less and less costly but that would be increasingly centralized? I would like a brief answer because I would like to hear Jocelyne's response.

[Normand Lévesque]

I'll answer briefly and clearly.

First, I don't think it can be less and less costly because 42% of the population ranks at that level.

Second, provincial and territorial participation is fundamentally important. The key factors are there.

Third, the federal government has to play a leadership role and integrate into all its departments an approach focused on life-long development and education.

If I were the prime minister, I would not cut those programs. If I were prime minister and 42% of my fellow citizens were at levels 1 and 2, I would ask myself a few questions before cutting the budgets for those programs. The productivity and civic participation of a large number of Canadian adults are at stake. That's probably what I would do if I were prime minister.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Pilon, what do you say?

[Ghislaine Pilon]

Now I'm prime minister. That's fantastic.

In my mind, little children are the citizens of tomorrow. If we want Canada to be bilingual, we have to take care of early childhood, establish early childhood or childhood centres. The idea, in a way, is to take care of future taxpayers. A country is rich through its children. Education leads us to evolve. We have to start from birth and then continue down that path.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. McRoberts, if you think of the constraints placed on us as the federal government, not the provincial one, can you respond?

[Kenneth McRoberts]

If I were prime minister, I would nevertheless promote student mobility in Canada, the mobility of francophone students among the francophone communities of Quebec and the rest of Canada, and the mobility of immersion school graduates and francophile students. That would afford the opportunity to spend time in a francophone community. From a constitutional standpoint, we could imagine a federal government program that promotes the mobility of all kinds of students.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

And you, Ms. Lalonde?

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

If I were prime minister, I would establish a partnership with the francophone universities so that bilingual public servants could be trained, so that there would be a pool of accessible individuals who could occupy positions in the public service. That should be done with the universities in the Canadian francophone community, as we are the only institutions in Canada who can do that job.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

And you, Ms. Arsenault?

[Colette Arsenault]

I come from the smallest province in Canada, Prince Edward Island. It's very important for me for the needs of every province and territory to be considered when strategies are developed. As it very often happens that only one course of action is preferred, our provinces and territories do not have an opportunity to make requests because that doesn't meet our criteria or needs. Even if they are comprehensive, strategies must also meet the needs of the provinces and territories. The needs of Prince Edward Island and those of other Atlantic provinces are different from those of Ontario, whose needs are different from those of the Northwest Territories, which are different from those of British Columbia.

In my mind, those strategies are very important, but it is essential to support life-long education. Twenty or 30 years ago, people had a career, and that was it. Now they often have a number of careers and need services on an ongoing basis; they have to go back to school or take training in order to adjust, in the short or long term.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

Now we'll hear from Ms. David, last but not least.

[Adèle David]

Thank you.

Ultimately, you have to intervene with parents as early as possible. They are the first persons responsible. They have to make informed decisions and lay out the path that their children will follow their entire lives. As for the integrated service model advanced by CNPF, we have clearly come to a crucial implementation stage. We now have a common vision of what an integrated service model is in the greater francophone community. We have to be able to create this francophone zone and to provide parents with access to French-language services.

Here in the communities, the family is a microcosm of society and a reflection of the community. When people become parents, it has to be possible to offer them this francophone community and access to that community. However, we see that 50% of children are already assimilated by the age of four. As services have not been offered, they have not been able to use them. Choice is already a determinant. Only 50% of our francophones attend our schools.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

As a father of three children who are currently in French immersion, I thank you for your answers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Pilon, it's your turn.

[François Pilon, NDP, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to thank all of you for coming today and telling us about your vision.

My question is for Ms. Pilon.

In your presentation, you talked about health care. However, in view of the current government's economic strategy, a lot of Quebec families whose English is rudimentary have wound up in the west. Are they able to get health care in French? We know this is important in that area: you have to be able to explain the problem you are suffering from.

Is the Roadmap useful to you in that regard?

[Ghislaine Pilon]

I can answer your question in part, Mr. Pilon, but the Société Santé en français could probably answer it better than I.

At our childhood and family service centres, we advocate offering health care services in French, of course. I can speak on my own behalf. I've lived in four provinces across Canada, and I've always found francophone doctors and dentists because I made an effort. However, not everyone makes that effort. That's why we're asking for centres where we can bring together all these francophones and make a small francophone cosmos so that our parents can go there. That's simpler. When you're sick, you're obviously more comfortable if you can be served in your mother tongue. The older we get, the worse it is, I'm told. I haven't gone that far yet, but I'm getting there.

Perhaps my director would like to add something. It's hard to talk about health when you work in early childhood.

[Adèle David]

In fact, we are talking more about overall health from the perspective of children's overall development.

As early childhood is a determinant of health, it's important to be in good health so that you can develop in a healthy way and to permit early intervention.

For early childhood, we operate from an overall health perspective, both emotional and physical. The emotional aspect may be related to identity building, which affects self-esteem in young children.

We have some data that indicate that children, and even certain families, are not comfortable, whereas they could have had access to certain services. That affects them emotionally. As for parents, we address the health issue from an overall health perspective.

[François Pilon, NDP, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Lévesque, do you have an overall literacy strategy?

Is federal government funding enabling you to carry out your strategy?

[Normand Lévesque]

No, not at this time. I believe there is an overall vision. Earlier it was said that development in this area has to start from the needs of the learners. It must also start from provincial and territorial realities. There is often a literacy and skills development policy framework in every province and territory. And since the provinces and territories are responsible for service delivery, we first have to ensure that our actions are consistent with provincial realities.

Second, no, federal funding is not sufficient in this area. Apart from funding, there is the need for the federal government to mobilize the provinces around a common issue in this area and more particularly around adult francophones. That's the core of the strategy.

In the past five years, $7.5 million has been invested, but only in family literacy. That's not very much and it's often in a single field. Consequently, that has to be opened up.

It is important for the federal government to have an overall policy framework in collaboration with the provinces. The answers are there. We have to ensure we have an investment, a policy framework and community and institutional involvement in development as a whole. You currently need skills in order to find a job.

We obviously also have to have a more comprehensive approach to the communities and families, which we currently don't have. Let's hope the next funding framework will make that approach possible. The Roadmap shouldn't be perceived as an end, but rather as a lever that enables us to go elsewhere.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Pilon.

Mr. Bélanger has told me he does not want to introduce his two motions. So we have 15 minutes more at our disposal for questions and comments from committee members

We'll continue with Mr. Menegakis.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today. Thanks as well for your presentations, which I found very interesting and informative.

As you know, we are studying the Roadmap on Canada's Linguistic Duality. The Roadmap is very important to our government and represents an investment of more than $1 billion.

My first question will be for you, Mr. McRoberts.

I found your presentation very thorough and very informative. I wonder if you could elaborate a little on how the roadmap.... Because we're midstream now with the roadmap, we want to evaluate how we're doing so far and what we will need to do in the future. I wonder if you could elaborate on how the roadmap has facilitated your organization or the universities you represent, and perhaps elaborate a little more specifically on where you would like to see more emphasis in the new roadmap.

[Kenneth McRoberts]

Well, as I indicated, our role within the existing roadmap has been quite limited. The post-secondary section is relatively modest. There was one particular program that was important, for which we found support, but overall, the support for post-secondary, including the universities, has been quite limited.

In terms of a new roadmap, we in particular would be interested in support for a strategy for recruiting and integrating international students, francophone international students. We have the capacity to welcome a larger number of students into our midst. It's important to the francophone communities, the minority communities, that francophone immigrants arrive in Canada and become integrated with them. Currently among immigrants to Canada who are establishing themselves outside Quebec, less than 1% are francophone. So this represents a very serious challenge, along with others, for the demographic position of the francophone minorities.

We think we can play a role, a constructive role, by attracting francophone students from other countries, especially through bursaries, by supporting them within our institutions. Typically we have structures in place to support international students, but we need to strengthen them. We can also enable them to become integrated with their respective francophone communities, through employment or internships, or whatever, with francophone institutions or even francophone enterprises. That would be one focus where we think we could make a significant difference for Canada by reinforcing the position of the francophone minorities and attracting new Canadians who, obviously, are going to make an important contribution to the country.

The other area that we think would be important in a new roadmap would be support for graduates of immersion schools, francophile students, such that they will come to our institutions and continue their studies in French. The majority of graduates from immersion schools currently don't do their university studies in French; they do them in English. This means that a major investment, which the immersion schools represent, is in a sense being threatened. We're not really capitalizing on the millions of dollars that have gone into supporting immersion schools.

It's only if these students continue with their post-secondary studies in French that their capacity in French will be retained and improved. If they do their university studies in English, it's quite clear that their capacity in French is going to be significantly undermined. So we would hope that a program of bursaries would make it possible for them to come to our institutions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I'm going to ask a brief question, and then I'll give Mr. Harris part of my five minutes so that he can ask one in turn.

Earlier Mr. Lévesque talked about literacy and long-term programs. Your program is under the responsibility of Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. We know that Human Resources and Skills Development Canada is also responsible for employment insurance. I'm coming back to that subject because manpower training programs now enable people to go to college and to receive two years of benefits as though they were employment insurance claimants. They are allowed to finish their two years of university and to receive employment insurance benefits.

Do you think it would be good for the government to consider including literacy in that? That's the base, the start. If 66 people have a literacy problem, they will definitely have trouble finding a job. So rather than deny them, we should enable workers who lose their jobs to take literacy courses and then to go to college. We initially deny them that opportunity. We tell them that, if they haven't completed grade 10, they can't take part. They're all disqualified. The only thing they can do is take evening courses, but that's too slow and they don't go right to the end.

Do you think it would be a good idea for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada to allow that, either under the Roadmap or in the context of its programs? In either case, it's still the same money: taxpayers' money. Do you think it would be preferable to offer that kind of program rather than have an individual claim employment insurance, especially seasonal workers who we know may not have work until the following spring.