Official Languages Committee on Feb. 28th, 2012

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

The only answer I can give you to that question is that we at Statistics Canada measure progress over time in the conventional way. We conduct an initial survey, then we conduct a second. This enables us to see what has improved, what has declined, what has increased and so on. My colleagues from the other departments clearly operate in accordance with a logic that is either a hybrid or very different from ours.

In short, I can't really offer an opinion on the subject.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Corbeil, if I go back to Mr. Godin's first question, you are telling us that the second survey is tantamount to finding $15 million, $16 million or $17 million to conduct another study further to the first conducted in 2006.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

The first was conducted at a cost of $7.5 million.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Pardon me for adding a little. The cost of living being what it is, it may be $15 million the next time.

So that study would be absolutely essential. In any case, in the methodology, it is—

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

It of course becomes difficult to monitor things over time, to see them progress or how they evolve. That is how we operate at Statistics Canada when we try to measure progress or regression.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Chair, do I have a little time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Enough to ask a very brief question.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

That would take too long. I'll keep it for another time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you. Mr. Williamson has the floor.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

My question is for the Statistics Canada representatives.

You write that 42% of francophones living outside Quebec report that they use French outside the home. The figure is less than 30% in the provinces east of New Brunswick and less than 10% in those west of Manitoba.

How did you arrive at those percentages? What is going on? What are the percentages for Ontario and New Brunswick? There is no doubt a reason for that, but I don't see it here.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I will try to be brief. These results are directly related to the Survey on the Vitality of Official-Language Minorities. In that survey, we asked a number of questions in a module on the language used in public. We asked people what languages they used outside the home in various areas, whether it be the media, various work activities and so on. We very clearly observed—you won't be surprised—that the languages used outside the home are directly related to the percentage representation of the minority groups in their living environment.

In the Ontario regions bordering on Quebec, Franco-Ontarians use French much more than those living Newfoundland and Labrador and British Columbia.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Is the situation the same in New Brunswick?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Of course, in northern New Brunswick, it is clear that francophones mainly use their language, whereas the situation is different in the south.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

It said that 85% of Quebec anglophones use English in public. Is that simply because most of them are in Montreal or near the Ottawa area?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Nearly 80% of Quebec anglophones live in Montreal or near Ottawa. In Montreal, they are essentially concentrated on the West Island. Consequently, they use English much more in their everyday lives.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Are there any figures that show us how and what happens for anglophones in Quebec when they live elsewhere in the province?

Would that be comparable to what happens to francophones in other locations in Canada?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

One element clearly stands out, and I mentioned it. Following the vitality survey, we established a concentration indicator. We have observed that even anglophones who live in regions such as the Eastern Townships or in Gaspésie live in quite dense concentrations. Consequently, they use their language much more frequently than what we observe among anglophones outside Quebec.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

I'm going to take this from the English text.

It talks about some of the demographics and the shift. You write, “the socioeconomic situation of French-speaking Canadians living outside Quebec has greatly improved”. That's good news, I would think. That was my comment; it wasn't in the text. I'll continue: “However, this improvement has not necessarily benefited the vitality of the French language, as evidenced by the anglicization of many francophones.”

Can you explain that last line? The first two paragraphs seem to talk about a fairly.... It sounds robust. It sounds positive. There's growth. Incomes are up. That last line, “the anglicization of many francophones”, what do you mean by that?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

One of the key elements is that, as I mentioned earlier, 40% of francophones outside Quebec live in municipalities where they represent less than 10% of the population. In fact, getting a university degree and getting a good job doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be able to work in French, or that you will be able to live in French. This is clearly shown in our studies. Furthermore, what's interesting is that depending on whether you live in the urban or rural areas, there is a large impact on the languages that you are going to use. Often, francophones who work in urban environments have a higher tendency to use English at work or in their everyday lives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, thank you.

Monsieur Harris.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That actually provides a decent segue into what I wanted to say. With 85% of anglophones in Quebec being able to live their lives more in English, and certainly more than in other provinces, it brings up a question with respect to justice. The road map did allocate $38 million for program funding. However, it only allocated $900,000 to Canada's English linguistic minority communities in support of access to justice in both official languages in Quebec. Could you please explain to the committee why the English-speaking community in Quebec received only 2% of the funds from this program?

[Andrée Duchesne]

One of the reasons, and the main reason, is because the funds are not distributed according to regions, provinces, or communities. The funds are attributed depending on the merits of the projects submitted to us. The English community of Quebec has benefited from the access to the justice support fund as much as any other, depending on the project they submitted to us. That is the main reason.

We do not allocate funds on a regional basis.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

You said on the basis of merit. Could you please, if you have the information, explain which community sector organizations supporting Canada's English linguistic minority communities Justice Canada does contribute to with program or project funding?

[Andrée Duchesne]

We have worked with the Quebec Community Groups Network. We have regular discussions with this network. We have also worked with the joint committee of the Quebec bar and the Chambre des notaires to help maintain a lot of work related to the English version of the Civil Code of Quebec, because according to the English legal community, the English version of the Civil Code of Quebec was not written in an acceptable manner for English-speaking lawyers and the English-speaking community. So we've helped a lot with that particular project.

We've also funded other projects with McGill University, the centre for private and comparative law, and we have also done a tremendous amount of work with Éducaloi. As my colleague Linda was explaining, we have done extensive work with Éducaloi to provide the English community of Quebec with legal information that is written in an English language that they fully understand, that is written in clear language.

So those are the main areas we have worked with so far with the English community in Quebec.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

We may have follow-up questions down the road.

Then I will quickly use up the little time I have left.

Do you believe that Statistics Canada should be one of the key post-roadmap institutions?